Be on my way

[Krampus]

So then, how does one do a "snort of derision" on the forum?

 

I think we need more emoticons. I'm still waiting for my rim-shot emoticon. <badap-boom> just doesn't cut it.

[Stosh]

OMG!  That's funny!!! 

[MattR]

>>coming out of hibernation...

There's a limit to how much time moderators have to 'police' the 'behavior' of forums...remember...they also don't get paid and they have 'lives' outside of this as well as careers. In the ideal world, a forum like scouter.com (if it doesn't work for scouters it probably can't work anywhere) should be self-moderating with the 'moderators' providing occasional nudges now and then. I read the series in this case and while I also disagree with his decision, I understand cyclops's feelings. Sorry to see him go.

back to hibernation<<<

Well I guess another form of scout crack is to get @@packsaddle to come out of hibernation.

 

The problem with all forums is they are public and disagreeing with someone in public gets people defensive. Disagreeing in private is much less confrontational. That's how we treat scouts. Pack, I meant to imply that everyone can be a part of this and that it is an easier decision for the moderators. If someone disagrees with what you tell them in private, so what. If they agree they'll probably make it right.

 

So, packsaddle, take a bite. Heeereee little burrow, come on buddy. You can do it....

[Rick_in_CA]

I love it!

[Sentinel947]

So the general consensus I'm seeing is 

1. Keep I&P

2. Moderators should step in and remove personal below the belt shots. (Strong disagreement is fine, but direct insults or character smears are not)

3. Self policing by members (because the mods aren't always present)

4. Taking serious disagreements/hurt feelings to PM's. 

Am I misinterpreting that? 

[Krampus]

I avoid I&P as much as possible. Personally I'd get rid of it...it has cost us several good members already.

[Stosh]

I don't worry one way or the other.  I don't always know whether I'm in I&P because I use the "View New Content" feature and so I always respond as if it's a regular forum. 

 

If losing members because of these comments is a problem, then one could reconsider it, but it is my experience we could be losing just as many in the other forums for the same reason.  I've seen some fairly contentious comments being tossed around in O/A, Patrol Method, etc. as well.  

 

One always has to consider the "other hand" which is outside the box.  The people leaving under the current system are those who feel victimized by others on the forum and leave.  The perpetrator stays.  That might not be a fair system.  Maybe a few warning shots over the bow of such people might be enough to set their course straight.  Otherwise as a last resort, instead of waiting for the victims to quit, these people get the boot.  If they want to reconsider their attitude, they can re-register on the forum and play nice.

[qwazse]

OMG!  That's funny!!! 

Trying to think of an OMG emoticon that wouldn't offend. ... NVM.

 

I&P topics usually boil down to someone wants things one way, can't understand why they aren't that way, so someone tries to explain with limited success, some folks get defensive. Learning that a country is bigger than whatever bubble we normally float in isn't the worst lesson, but it can be a hard one.

 

I think you all haven't used the tools at your disposal. Even if not a moderator.

 

• I've -1'd posts that undermined what I'd expect from civil discourse.
• I've also personally messaged some of you who persisted in doing something inappropriate for a forum. The behavior changed. End of discussion.
• I've stopped replying to a topic - without fanfare - because I realized I was sucking up all of the air in the room.
• At times I'd apologize for a harsh generalization.
• At other times, I'd reply publicly about why I did not think a statement of mine deserved some cliche`d label that a forum member gave it.

We don't have to throw a public gauntlet down at every offense.

We can arrange a private one-on-one conversation. "Leave your gift at the alter and reconcile with your brother."

We can ask our spouse/significant other to review what we wrote, and apologize publicly if he/she says we went too far.

[Stosh]

@@qwazse

 

I apologize  OMg!  Is that better?  Considering God isn't his/her real name, just a definition of who he/she is.  Then a proper definition of that whole subject would do wonders as to how the process works, too.  That we can save for another day.

• I've -1'd posts that undermined what I'd expect from civil discourse.

I think we are all pretty much in agreement when we see others over-step and when we get a ding about our overstepping.

• I've also personally messaged some of you who persisted in doing something inappropriate for a forum. The behavior changed. End of discussion.

I have done this as well, sometimes it works, sometimes it only aggravates the situation.  One wins some and one looses some.

• I've stopped replying to a topic - without fanfare - because I realized I was sucking up all of the air in the room.

I have done this as well, and if the other person is insistent with keeping the tirade going, they make it to my "Ignore List" as well.  One really doesn't need to put up with these types of things.  I don't make a big deal about it, but my actions pretty much will let the person have the last word and they can go away and bother someone else.

• At times I'd apologize for a harsh generalization.

I seriously try to not offend in the first place.  When I get a red arrow ding, it always comes as a surprise.  Unfortunately we don't know who green/red arrow click so we don't know who to thank or apologize to.  That's unfortunate.  I do appreciate the forum members who HAVE personally IM'd me and pointed out where I have offended or could be misunderstood by what I attempted to say.  Those members are the keepers for this forum!  And NO they are not always the moderators!  Just good Scouters!

• At other times, I'd reply publicly about why I did not think a statement of mine deserved some cliche`d label that a forum member gave it.

 

We don't have to throw a public gauntlet down at every offense.

 

Or carry a grudge on into every other area one might be discussing next.

 

We can arrange a private one-on-one conversation. "Leave your gift at the alter and reconcile with your brother."

 

"If your brother or sister sins, go and point out their fault, just between the two of you. If they listen to you, you have won them over.

This is always my first step, when it doesn't work, then the next line of the quote is,

"But if he will not listen, take one or two others along, so that 'every matter maybe established by the testimony of two or three witnesses. 

Time to get the moderators enlisted to help.

"If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church.

Only at this point does one make it an issue on the open forum.

"And if he refuses to listen even to the church. Treat him as you would a pagan or tax collector."

Here is where, if the moderators don't remove the person, I can at least put them on my "Ignore List".

 

I added the whole context Quazse because too many of us are tempted to jump right to the "Tell the whole Church" before trying the more sane approach described by this alternative approach.

 

We can ask our spouse/significant other to review what we wrote, and apologize publicly if he/she says we went too far.

 

Proof reading it a couple of times to oneself also goes along way to allow one to think about what is written, too..  Kinda keeps one from being too trigger happy when one shoots off their mouth. 

[vumbi]

Stosh, if you click on the number itself, next to the 'red' and 'green' arrows, it will open a window that lists who left the good or bad 'vote' (or whatever it is called).

Calls to elimnate I&P are not necessary if everyone would just stop going there. It would whimper into oblivion on its own in that case. It's one of those great situations where the right thing is to do nothing. Doesn't get much easier than that.

[Krampus]

Stosh, if you click on the number itself, next to the 'red' and 'green' arrows, it will open a window that lists who left the good or bad 'vote' (or whatever it is called).

Calls to elimnate I&P are not necessary if everyone would just stop going there. It would whimper into oblivion on its own in that case. It's one of those great situations where the right thing is to do nothing. Doesn't get much easier than that.

 

Traffic would go faster too if people didn't slow down to look at wrecks on the other side of the highway. They do, it is human nature to be curious. Take it away, curiosity is channeled elsewhere.

[NJCubScouter]

Traffic would go faster too if people didn't slow down to look at wrecks on the other side of the highway. They do, it is human nature to be curious. Take it away, curiosity is channeled elsewhere.

We're not in a race here. And I don't think the forum should be in a position of "saving people from themselves". The forum owner (who is the person who decides what sub-forums we have) seems to follow a policy of treating forum members like adults who can decide what they are and are not going to read. (I do realize that there are some under-18 members here, but in fact they are treated like adults here as well.)

 

I don't have a problem with that. Of course, anyone who wants to write to Terry and propose a change in the forum is free to do so.

[DuctTape]

On forums I used to moderate, we tried to encourage participants to "seek a higher level of discourse". As mods, we had a fewcatch phrases. "Seek a higher level", "It isnt just what you say, but how you say it." and "debate the post, not the poster." Often other members would help by repeating these as appropriate to maintain civility. It was by no means perfect, but it helped.

[Krampus]

We're not in a race here. And I don't think the forum should be in a position of "saving people from themselves". The forum owner (who is the person who decides what sub-forums we have) seems to follow a policy of treating forum members like adults who can decide what they are and are not going to read. (I do realize that there are some under-18 members here, but in fact they are treated like adults here as well.)

 

I don't have a problem with that. Of course, anyone who wants to write to Terry and propose a change in the forum is free to do so.

 

Well, then we will continue to risk losing folks who add a great deal to the discussion here. Good to know someone will be around to turn off the light when we're all gone.

[Stosh]

It's never been the topics or the sub-forums that have concerned me about this forum.  I have reported issues in the past and nothing is ever done about it.  I have had to decide between Ignore feature or leave.  That is always an open choice.  While April 1 is always fun, there are 364 other days that aren't. 

 

By the way, what are the warning points we see on our profiles and why with all the concern aren't any of them above zero?