UUA renews relationship with Boy Scouts of America

[SSScout]

""By the way, I consider being paid to dole out "religion" unethical.""    One of the reasons traditional Quakers have no paid ministry. 

[NJCubScouter]

As Christian I don't expect to get paid extra on a Jewish holiday.  I don't expect to get paid extra on a Hindu holiday,   As an atheist, why would I expect to get paid extra on any religious holiday?

I don't think the issue is what you, personally, would expect. Some holidays that are religious in nature are also legal holidays, for various purposes. If, for example, you were a teacher or administrator working for my local school district, you would have Rosh Hashanah (just the first day, not the second day) and Yom Kippur as paid days off, assuming they did not fall on a weekend. Wouldn't matter how much you wanted to work, and it wouldn't matter how Christian, Muslim, Hindu, Buddhist, atheist, agnostic, deist, pantheist or whatever you were. The schools are closed. And we are not a majority-Jewish district, I would estimate maybe 5% of the teachers and probably 10-15% of the students are. The schools have been closed on those days since long before we moved there. And when a group of Hindu parents recently petitioned the school board to close school on their Festival of Lights (Diwali), they were turned down. Most people who I have talked to about it believe there are probably more Hindus than Jewish people in the school district, but that's the way it is. It probably will not be that way forever - either the schools will be open on the Jewish High Holy Days or the closures will expand to one day of Diwali and probably the holiest Muslim day (called Eid, I think?)

 

Keep it in mind that when I was in the ministry, I worked ALL Christian holidays and didn't get paid extra for any of them.  Why would I expect overtime pay for working Christmas?

You know, Stosh, as much as we disagree on many things, I think you are an intelligent person, so I am pretty confident that you know that that is not a valid analogy.

Edited March 31, 2016 by NJCubScouter

[Stosh]

If there is truly a separation of religion and government, why is the government even considering religious holidays as part of it's calendar.  I spends a lot of time trying to justify it's holiday for one religious community while denying another.  Wouldn't it be a lot easier just to pick some random date out of the air, like maybe the 4th of July or last Thursday of November or Last Monday of May or First Monday of September, for the holidays and let it go at that?  We have national holidays that have nothing to do with religion, keep those, and dump the rest.  If nothing else, everyone will be able to whine equally.  That seems fair.

 

So instead of paying everyone overtime for a religious observance they don't even believe in, why not just let those people who want to be home for their holiday the opportunity to stay home without pay or take it as a vacation day.  I did that for years.

Edited March 31, 2016 by Stosh

[NJCubScouter]

If there is truly a separation of religion and government, why is the government even considering religious holidays as part of it's calendar.  I spends a lot of time trying to justify it's holiday for one religious community while denying another.  Wouldn't it be a lot easier just to pick some random date out of the air, like maybe the 4th of July or last Thursday of November or Last Monday of May or First Monday of September, for the holidays and let it go at that?  We have national holidays that have nothing to do with religion, keep those, and dump the rest.  If nothing else, everyone will be able to whine equally.  That seems fair.

 

So instead of paying everyone overtime for a religious observance they don't even believe in, why not just let those people who want to be home for their holiday the opportunity to stay home without pay or take it as a vacation day.  I did that for years.

That sounds like a good issue for you to take up with your local state representative, if you're so interested.

[gumbymaster]

@@Stosh, with the current anti-religious environment this country is in, we may be moving in that direction.

 

For better or worse, the School District here doesn't technically have the those holidays because they are religious, they have them because the lack of student attendance at school on those days is/will be significant enough to disrupt the teaching plans, so they give in to it.  Thus, our winter break, days that correspond to many other christian and Jewish holidays, etc.  While I don't think it happened yet, there was discussion about Halloween (as many of the Hispanic students in our schools do not attend on that day), and the Chinese New Year as well.

 

I don't claim the process is fair, or would truly pass constitutional muster, just that it is practical.

[qwazse]

....  Wouldn't it be a lot easier just to pick some random date out of the air, like maybe the 4th of July or last Thursday of November or Last Monday of May or First Monday of September, for the holidays and let it go at that?  We have national holidays that have nothing to do with religion, keep those, and dump the rest.  If nothing else, everyone will be able to whine equally.  That seems fair....

Well, if the grand arc of Church history is any indication, whatever date you choose will be imbued with Christian meaning.

 

As far as getting paid goes, if there's money to be made, but an unwilling work force, there will be overtime to pay.

 

I'm certainly not grudging Joe athiest or Jane gotta-get-away-from-the-in-laws Christian for taking advantage of that. I consider it part of our secular Christmas dividend.

[Sentinel947]

""By the way, I consider being paid to dole out "religion" unethical.""    One of the reasons traditional Quakers have no paid ministry. 

@SSScout: Most religions that pay their leaders do so because the responsibilities involved make it impossible for them to pursue any other form of productive work. Forgive my rudeness, but are you a Quaker?

 

All: Part of a Scout being reverent is to respect the beliefs and practices of others, even if you personally don't like them. 

 

In light of a forum member leaving over uncharitable comments about religion, I think we all should be more mindful of what we're saying in respect to other people's beliefs and practices (or lack of.) 

 

Sentinel947

Edited April 1, 2016 by Sentinel947

[Krampus]

@SSScout: Most religions that pay their leaders do so because the responsibilities involved make it impossible for them to pursue any other form of productive work. 

 

Yes, It's called "Paid to Pray". 

[Merlyn_LeRoy]

@@Stosh, with the current anti-religious environment this country is in, we may be moving in that direction.

 

For better or worse, the School District here doesn't technically have the those holidays because they are religious, they have them because the lack of student attendance at school on those days is/will be significant enough to disrupt the teaching plans, so they give in to it.  Thus, our winter break, days that correspond to many other christian and Jewish holidays, etc.  While I don't think it happened yet, there was discussion about Halloween (as many of the Hispanic students in our schools do not attend on that day), and the Chinese New Year as well.

 

I don't claim the process is fair, or would truly pass constitutional muster, just that it is practical.

 

 

The best way I've ever heard of (and it's pretty clearly constitutionally OK) is to actually find out what days students and teachers are planning to stay out of school, whether it's for a religious holiday or family gathering or whatever, and plan to have the school closed on days with the most absences and try to avoid things like important tests on remaining days with high absence rates.

[SSScout]

S947:  Nothing rude about it, yep I am Quaker.  Scout Chaplain at the '05 and '13 Jamborees.   It sure is nice to discuss faith here on the Faith and Chaplaincy Forum.  Oh, wait....

 

The Religious Society of Friends started out in the 1650s English reformation/revolution period.   At first, there was a desire to be rid of the hypocritical church hierarchy of the day. Hence our traditional, silent,  "unled"  worship.    Later, in the 1820s in America, there was a theological division that created two main  branches of North American Quakers.  I'll not bore you with the details, but one branch mostly worships without the benefit of "human"  clergy, one branch "mostly" has  paid ministry, much like a Methodist Church, IMHO, but they do still accept the idea of Spirit led ministry.  Really simplified..... 

 

Come by Sandy Spring Friends Meeting  (Sandy Spring MD) any time....