Outpost Camping and Other Questions

[DuctTape]

Stosh, I agreee with you. However if a troop "needs" to have the adults on the trek, keeping them at a distance is best IMO.

[Stosh]

Stosh, I agreee with you. However if a troop "needs" to have the adults on the trek, keeping them at a distance is best IMO.

 

And other than BSA's litigiousness fears what is the "need" you are talking about?  

 

If a boy breaks a leg on an outing, what is the adult going to do that the boys can't?  How much adult supervision would be necessary to prevent the broken leg?  Can adults be just as negligent 10' away as they would be 10 miles away?  What if the only WFA trained participants are under 18?  If all 8 boys in the patrol are WFA trained, FC scouts, why do they have to drag along two adults they will need to babysit on the outing just because G2SS insists on it?

[qwazse]

Perhaps now is the time to actually include the oft-neglected preface to the G2SS ...

 

"All participants in official Scouting activities should become familiar with the Guide to Safe Scouting and applicable program literature or manuals,and be aware of state or local government regulations that supersede Boy Scouts of America practices, policies, and guidelines. The Guide to Safe Scouting is an overview of Scouting policies and procedures gleaned from a variety of sources. For some items, the policy statements are complete. For others, unit leaders are expected to review the additional reference material cited prior to conducting such activities.

 

In situations not specifically covered in this guide, activity planners should evaluate the risk or potential risk of harm, and respond with action plans based on common sense, community standards, the Boy Scout motto, and safety policies and practices commonly prescribed for the activity by experienced providers and practitioners. Perhaps this quote by Sir Robert Baden-Powell from his 1914 book Quick Training for War is appropriate to include here:

“... The books lay down definite principles and examples which serve to guide the leaders when applying their common sense to the situation before them. No two situations are ever precisely the same, and it is therefore impossible to lay down exact rules that should guide in every case, but a man who carries precedents and principles in his head has no difficulty in applying their teaching in supreme moments of sudden emergency ...â€

 

A situation where 8 first class scouts (the concept, not the patch) present a solid plan and are better prepared than any available adults is one of those "not specifically covered". Therefore in order to minimize risk, they should execute the plan independently!

[meschen]

Other questions

 

5) If Wolves and Bears can use a map and compass, then  why does it say they  can't they go orienteering lower on the chart?

 

6) they can do pioneering bridges and towers, but not other pioneering projects?

 

 

5. Orienteering is a cross-county activity where Scouts are attempting to locate way points indicated on a map. It is generally a competitive timed activity, and isn't done in groups (although Scouts should be a buddy). Adult supervision is problematic here. Map an compass hikes though, with full dens and an adult are permitted.

 

6. Cub Scouts can traverse bridges and towers (subject to other regulations on the topic). They have not been taught the skills (ie building projects using lashings) which is what Pioneering is.

[Stosh]

5. Orienteering is a cross-county activity where Scouts are attempting to locate way points indicated on a map. It is generally a competitive timed activity, and isn't done in groups (although Scouts should be a buddy). Adult supervision is problematic here. Map an compass hikes though, with full dens and an adult are permitted.

 

6. Cub Scouts can traverse bridges and towers (subject to other regulations on the topic). They have not been taught the skills (ie building projects using lashings) which is what Pioneering is.

One can do a Rogain event with Cubs quite easily.  They are a lot more fun than orienteering.

[qwazse]

5. Orienteering is a cross-county activity where Scouts are attempting to locate way points indicated on a map. It is generally a competitive timed activity, and isn't done in groups (although Scouts should be a buddy). Adult supervision is problematic here. Map an compass hikes though, with full dens and an adult are permitted.

 

6. Cub Scouts can traverse bridges and towers (subject to other regulations on the topic). They have not been taught the skills (ie building projects using lashings) which is what Pioneering is.

 

FWIW, our orienteering club lets folks run their courses in teams. Sometimes they encourage them to do so. They certainly encourage young ones to participate with their parents/guardians. (And yes, there's paperwork that must have a parent's signature for the under-18 y.o.s )

However, allow me to opine that seasoned scouts should be granted permission to solo an orienteering course -- especially one with electronic controls.

 

The toughest thing with cubs and pioneering, I think, is the physical strength to pull lashings tight. Even many scouts lack patience for being that meticulous. But, working with buddys and being persistent, they could do a fine job with something like a giant hamster wheel. (Plus at their age, you don't have to worry about it being more than 5' tall! )

Edited March 23, 2016 by qwazse

[perdidochas]

But a boy scout can go backpacking, so what's wrong with outpost camping? Well, let's look it up in the g2ss. Oops, this is the g2ss. Hmm, well, the word outpost isn't on that webpage except in that graph. The graph also suggests, in the right most column, that wilderness back country is limited to 14 and older. Backpacking is also only mentioned in the context of high adventure, 14+. So I guess backpacking is no longer allowed in boy scouts?

 

Or maybe this whole page should just be ignored.

Well, not really. In the text it mentions three types of high adventure--national, council and unit.  There are no restrictions listed for unit high adventure on the chart.  My presumption is that is acceptable. 

[NealOnWheels]

Anyone notice that the chart indicates camporees are not for older scouts?  Not sure I can put much faith in that chart.

[qwazse]

Anyone notice that the chart indicates camporees are not for older scouts?  Not sure I can put much faith in that chart.

I was about to ask you to uncross your eyes, then I realized that we were looking at different charts.

My "go to" reference has been http://www.scouting.org/filestore/pdf/34416_Insert_Web.pdf. That one has the line going across varsity and venturing.

 

Still even on the other "blurry" chart, there is no distinction between older/younger boy scouts. The line for camporees just stops before venturing. Which is retarded because camporees are the one thing that my Venturers look forward to. (Although they call them "summits" just to feel special.)

 

P.S. - I am not using "retarded" in any way disparaging to mentally challenged individuals (who I know for a fact bring camporees to life). I'm using it to suggest that whoever wrote this chart is thinking backwardly.

[perdidochas]

Anyone notice that the chart indicates camporees are not for older scouts?  Not sure I can put much faith in that chart.

Well, I agree that camporees are not for older scouts, but not for safety reasons.  1

[qwazse]

Well, I agree that camporees are not for older scouts, but not for safety reasons.  1

But, who's planning and implementing your camporee, if not the older scouts?

 

Oh, never mind.

[Stosh]

Over the past 3 years our camporees have been cleaning up the landfill, doing 3 Spookorees for the Cub Scouts and now manning booths for community groups at Earth Day fair.  The closest thing we have had to a traditional camporee was a troop put one on, They showed up Saturday morning, ran a few events and then left after lunch. 

 

Needless to say, my boys have all learned to avoid camporees like the plague.  They would prefer to do their own thing on their own.

[perdidochas]

But, who's planning and implementing your camporee, if not the older scouts?

 

Oh, never mind.

Well, they try, but you know the drill.  Our older scouts will be hosting the camporee in fall, and they will be planning and implementing it. 

[perdidochas]

Over the past 3 years our camporees have been cleaning up the landfill, doing 3 Spookorees for the Cub Scouts and now manning booths for community groups at Earth Day fair.  The closest thing we have had to a traditional camporee was a troop put one on, They showed up Saturday morning, ran a few events and then left after lunch. 

 

Needless to say, my boys have all learned to avoid camporees like the plague.  They would prefer to do their own thing on their own.

That was pretty much my point. IMHO, most camporees are a wasted campout weekend.