Who is your troop's trailer registered to?

[blw2]

I thought I touched on this question in a recent thread, but can't find it now...

 

We're chartered by a Catholic Parish

the trailer was registered to the troop, with the old SM's home address listed

and as best I can tell, it's somehow attached to his SSN, since when I tried to update the address online through our state it didn't come up under the EIN/Tax ID number

 

So in trying to clean things up and have the CO's office address listed on everything (banking, etc..), it has come up that it looks like the CO doesn't want it.  And there's the same old questions coming up re who owns the trailers, etc...

They want the thing to be registered to a "Leader" in the troop because they don't want the liability

BUT, I'm thinking they carry the liability anyway since THEY own the thing. (& their name is plastered on the side in great big letters)

But since they don't think they own it....  well you get the picture.

 

Because it's Catholic, ours is complicated.... the parish falls under the diocese, which falls under the ecclesiastical province....  it just gets huge in a hurry.

 

So, I'm wondering what other catholic church chartered units do.... or other denomination churches... or non-church CO's.... big troops.... small troops....

Edited March 18, 2016 by blw2

[Stosh]

Whoever's SSN and address is on the registration is who owns the trailer.  If the former SM doesn't want to give it up, it's his to decide what to do with it. 

 

Now it begins to dawn on someone that registering it in a person's name means ... well, they own it, not the scouts or the CO. 

[The Blancmange]

Ours is registered in the name of the Troop, with the address of the troop treasurer's home.  I recognize that the Troop has no independent legal existence, but this was done before my time, and no one at the DOT apparently ever questioned it.  

 

Our CO is an American Legion unit.

Edited March 18, 2016 by The Blancmange

[fred johnson]

In our state, small utility trailers are not licensed any more.  

[blw2]

Ours is registered in the name of the Troop, with the address of the troop treasurer's home.  I recognize that the Troop has no independent legal existence, but this was done before my time, and no one at the DOT apparently ever questioned it.  

 

Our CO is an American Legion unit.

this is how our pack's trailer was too....

similar to our troop trailer because the SM and Pack CC was the same person (& he used to be the pack's treasurer), both were registered to the Pack/Troop but to his address.

I see now how this might be done out of convenience, but oh what a mess!  He's no longer with us (passed away), and I fear it's going to take a lawyer getting involved to make the switch.  Hopefully I'm wrong about that!

[Stosh]

If he passed, one might need to check to see if the trailer needs to go through probate.....

[blw2]

oooo, see yet another reason why doing anything like this tied to an individual is a bad move potentially

[qwazse]

Ask the troop (or pack) parents if there is a lawyer willing to help you volunteer their time to sort out a hitch ( ) beyond your pay grade.

[T2Eagle]

Ours is registered in the name of the Troop, with the address of the troop treasurer's home.  I recognize that the Troop has no independent legal existence, but this was done before my time, and no one at the DOT apparently ever questioned it.  

 

Our CO is an American Legion unit.

This is how our trailer is registered.  We are chartered by a Catholic parish.  Our state  does not require a SS# or EIN to register a trailer.

 

Blw2, for your situation it sounds like the trailer is registered to the troop and it's just the former SM's address so really you should be able to just change the address to another leader without too much trouble.

 

A couple of thoughts on the relationship with your CO, as I mentioned we are also chartered by a Catholic parish.  You seem to want your CO to do things that they don't want to do and you feel that what they're doing is somehow "wrong."  You want things like the registration to reflect their ownership and you want them to receive things like the bank statements and trailer registration.   But there's no compelling reason for that to happen, you and the committee are stewards of the funds and assets of the troop, there's no reason for you not to be receiving the mail relating to these things, and there's no reason for them to have to handle that mail anymore than they need to handle all the various mailings that the council and district might send out about camporees, summer camp, etc.  In their eyes you may be just making more work for their office staff.

 

As mentioned in another thread, the legal relationship between the unit and the CO is what it is, irrespective of the feelings or beliefs of the CO.  In the case of the Catholic Church, they have over 100 years of experience chartering Boy Scout units.  Whether your pastor or the business manager of the parish understand in detail what the legal ramifications of chartering a unit are, you can be very assured that at the diocesan level and nationally at the US Conference of Catholic Bishops (USCCB) there is no misunderstanding about both the risks and intricacies related to Catholic parishes chartering scout units.  So making someone at the local level acknowledge the intricacies of the relationship and asking the parish to do more than it wants to do, especially in what are really not meaningful things like processing the mail, may be more trouble than it's worth.

 

There are almost 9000 units sponsored by the Catholic Church.  There are therefore literally thousands of troop trailers owned by the Catholic Church, no matter how they're registered.  If this was a problem it would have been handled long before now..

 

For anyone interested, I found a good synopsis of how trailer liability works.  It is referring to trailers owned by a university but controlled by individual departments, and it is very closely analogous to a unit and CO owned trailer.

 

https://www.umsystem.edu/newscentral/infocus/2013/01/15/how-insurance-is-applied-to-trailers-in-various-situations/

[NJCubScouter]

My troop's trailer is registered to the CO. They also have a piece of property where they are gracious enough to let us park the trailer.

[Krampus]

Owned by the CO. Parked in a garage the unit is given sole use of by the CO. Kept up and maintained by the unit. Registered and paid for by the unit.

[blw2]

T2Eagle

You're not exactly correct in that i want our CO to do something they don't want to do.  Doesn't really matter to me, I'm just trying to help and will do it whichever way they want.... unless they want me to put my personal name on it.

They are the ones that said the bank statements should be under their address..... makes perfect sense... keeps them in the loop, makes handling changes down the road easier, etc...I'm just extending the logic here.... it's owned by them they just don't seem to know it....

and that's the real issue as I see it.

You're right.... decades of history with this, thousands of units and trailers under catholic charter.... so why do we have to retrain everyone in the parish office individually as things come up?

and furthermore... why should we find ourselves in the mess now?  Should have been squared away a long time ago in my thinking!

 

Regardless...while 12 responses isn't exactly a great statistical representation, it does seem to be trending to most trailers registered at the CO's address... & I guess registered to either the CO or the unit itself (as in Troop xyz, care of the CO...)

[SSScout]

1)  If the state requires tags on the trailer , then the trailer has a "title".  It is a vehicle, albeit a non-powered one.  The title has a name and address on it, and probably either the driver's license number or the SSN of the named individual.  If it is titled to an "organization", , then the org's EIN, perhaps..

2) Find the title  If no title can be found, go to your MVA/DMV  and ask for a replacement title ($$). If named owner is  dead, then next of kin will probably have to get in the act.  Certificate of death?   With that in hand, go thru the process of selling (?giving?) the title to someone (something? ) else.  Talk to a sympathetic (yes, they can be)  MVA agent about the problem.  It is a Scout Troop trailer.....

3)   Unit Committee and CO (the COR?)  need to talk.  Why is the CO a CO for a Scout unit if not to SUPPORT the unit?   Closet space, parking space, insurance, etc. all are reasonable "support".  If the CO owns the trailer, CO's insurance should cover theft and loss while not being actively towed (check with your insurance agent).    Towing vehicle is USUALLY the "insured" if involved in a traffic accident and attached to the trailer. 

4)  Discuss maintenance costs:   Service brakes, new tires, burned out light bulbs (out of the "Scout Spirit" of the adult leaders?).

5)  Here's a "what if" to discuss:    Mr. ASM tows trailer to the Camporee.   Forest fire breaks out, camp is evacuated, everyone is OK, but the trailer had to be left behind and is now a total loss.  Who pays for all the tents, stoves, lamps, etc.?  How to claim it, God forbid? Is there an inventory?   20 year old trailer is worth how much now?

 

I'm just sayin' ...

Edited March 21, 2016 by SSScout

[cyclops]

Same as Fred, our state doesn't require registration. There is no title, just a bill of sale. It is 'owned' by the CO.

[Krampus]

Same as Fred, our state doesn't require registration. There is no title, just a bill of sale. It is 'owned' by the CO.

 

No registration means no inspection too?

 

We have both in Texas, yet you see some pretty natty trailers on the road. I ride a good half mile behind them just in case.