bobcatbrown520 Posted March 11, 2016 Share Posted March 11, 2016 Our Pack is under charter with the Knights of Columbus. Due to their new regulations after the end of the year we will loose our charter. Our Pack is wanting to move our charter to the local VFW or the MOOSE Lodge, anything other that the local Catholic parish. This is due to the fact that only one of our boys in our Pack is Catholic, and since the BSA states any civic or religious institution can be a charter we feel it shouldn't be a problem. However our District Director said that he already had plans for our Pack to move to the local Catholic Parish. He said when he received the letter from Knights of Columbus back in November that he had a talk with our COR and our then CM (I am currently CM) and also present was the former CM and former CC and pastor of the local parish. Why the former CC was in the talks is beyond me when my wife had taken over as CC the year before. Can't our Pack choose where we want to go? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krampus Posted March 11, 2016 Share Posted March 11, 2016 Can't our Pack choose where we want to go? To a degree. As long as the new CO meets the requirements outlined in the charter agreement and BSA bylaws and rules/regulations, I believe you can go where you want. I am sure others will chime in with their take. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SSScout Posted March 11, 2016 Share Posted March 11, 2016 Absotively. There are (unofficially) three requirements for a BSA charter: (1) A willing organization who is willing to agree to the *terrible,* noxious, *inadvisable,* Machiavellian, *draconian (Tongue firmly in cheek) requirements. (2)A group of parents who are willing to be BSA leaders (Scouters) (see previous listing of terms). (3)A group of boys (and /or girls age 14 and over) willing to submit to the rigors of having fun while learning the responsibility (whether they are aware of doing so or not) of maturity. Your unit cannot, in reality, be forced to transfer to a CO with which you are not comfortable. Your DE may have a prejudice in some way to let the Parish be a CO, but they need not be YOUR CO. The VFW or Moose are both good candidates for Scout chartering. So is a Parish office. Take your pick, and get out in the woods! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Blancmange Posted March 11, 2016 Share Posted March 11, 2016 The Pack is program operated by, and in essence, owned by, the chartering organization. If the institutional head and COR of the old organization find a new organization willing to take over the charter (Appears the COR would be a member of both organizations), and the council concurs, they are certainly free to move the unit. If individual volunteers and members of the pack are dissatisfied with that decision, they are certainly free to attempt to get a different organization to charter a unit. The volunteers and scouts are free to join whatever unit they choose. But there is nothing you can do to prevent this move if the "owners" all agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattHiggins Posted March 11, 2016 Share Posted March 11, 2016 If the church actually wants the charter, I'd consider it. Often chartered organizations are more like absentee landlords than active partners. So, if the church was proactively looking to hold the charter, I'd hear them out. Are they offering meeting space? Storage? Will someone from the church attend committee meetings (can be a mixed blessing--pun intended)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwazse Posted March 11, 2016 Share Posted March 11, 2016 Nobody's tying your hands, but I would strongly suggest you get everyone in the same room and decide what's best for the community. Just because most of the boys are not Roman Catholic, scouting still may be better served by that CO (e.g., space for meeting/storage, your families might rather not have the boys near a bar, etc ...). On the other hand, splitting might divide your scouters into two packs. That's not always bad. Right now the Catholic boys aren't among your membership, but maybe church parishioners might step up and do more to get such boys involved in scouting if one pack was more secular and the other had a more religious bent. Whatever you all decide, try to do it while maintaining the best of terms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stosh Posted March 11, 2016 Share Posted March 11, 2016 A charter is an agreement between BSA and another organization. If organization A (K of C) calls it quits, they own the equipment and bank account. They can decide what happens to that equipment and funds. They decide to donate it all to new Organization B (Catholic Parish) they have every right to do so. It has nothing to do with any other people. The CC hasn't a say-so, neither does anyone on the committee. As a matter of fact, even BSA is limited with what they can do if anything. If the volunteers and boys want to all go off en mass and start their own Organization C, no problem It doesn't mean that Organization A is going to donate anything to the new start up. There are tons of Catholic Parishes out there as CO's and doing a nice job. Before flying off the handle I would check out the decision of Org A and Org B before looking into Org C. The Org C is a difficult road and would need to compete with Org B in the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David CO Posted March 12, 2016 Share Posted March 12, 2016 Very curious. The unit didn't mind being chartered by a Catholic organization like the Knights of Columbus, but it does object to being chartered by a Catholic parish. Why? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJCubScouter Posted March 12, 2016 Share Posted March 12, 2016 As Matt Higgins said, you have an opportunity here to have a CO with which you can have a good relationship, as the current pastor, etc. are consciously deciding to charter a unit as opposed to having one handed down to them from 60 or 70 years of previous pastors. As is discussed all the time in this forum, the leaders of many CO's are barely aware that the troop or pack is there. And, as qwasze mentions, there is also an opportunity here to expand your pack membership and maybe get some new adult leaders out of it as well. (Although qwasze is talking about splitting into two packs; I am talking about the existing pack staying together at the church and recruiting new members from the parish.) One thing you want to be aware of is that if you are chartered to a parish, your leaders MAY be required to take the Catholic version of youth protection training in addition to the BSA's YPT, regardless of the leader's religion. Near me is a troop with a Catholic church as the CO and their leaders (which based on their troop's membership, probably includes Jewish, Hindu, Protestant and Catholic leaders - possibly Muslim as well) have had to take both youth protection courses. I don't know if that is a nationwide thing, but I doubt it is just our local Catholic church. I am not saying this is a negative, just something you should be aware of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobcatbrown520 Posted March 13, 2016 Author Share Posted March 13, 2016 Very curious. The unit didn't mind being chartered by a Catholic organization like the Knights of Columbus, but it does object to being chartered by a Catholic parish. Why? The KC is a fraternal organization of Catholic men. Our current COR doesn't ask many questions and doesn't seem to wanna know much. He stays out of our way, lets us run things and just signs our leader applications. The parish they want to move us to has a priest that is known to be money hungry...always sticking his nose in athletics finances and wanting donations and to control the money. Our boys do all the work of selling popcorn so we have a good year round program. We have 2 campouts for familes that is completely paid for..plenty of other parties and activities that are paid for too. Our pack actually has better finances than most packs around and we don't need any new COR that wants to lock down our checkbook! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stosh Posted March 13, 2016 Share Posted March 13, 2016 The love of money..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blw2 Posted March 14, 2016 Share Posted March 14, 2016 I'll add an angle to consider With property being owned by the CO, I would think then that it is theirs to do with what they want (The Knights in your case) So If you have property..... such as a pack trailer a derby race track flags any unit camping equipment money in the bank etc... Then you would be forfeiting that stuff if you move to a charter Org that's not where the Knights want to give it.... in my thinking anyway. Which, depending on circumstances it might be just as well to walk away from the stuff and start fresh. Hard to swallow, but maybe best.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krampus Posted March 14, 2016 Share Posted March 14, 2016 I'll add an angle to consider With property being owned by the CO, I would think then that it is theirs to do with what they want (The Knights in your case) See the other thread about the BSA rules and regulations. Cannot find anything that says the gear is the property of the CO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stosh Posted March 14, 2016 Share Posted March 14, 2016 Funds raised and assets acquired under a CO's tax exempt status belongs to that organization. If a unit is using BSA's tax ID and exempt status, then everything belongs to the BSA. In either case it does not belong to the "unit" any more than money raised for a church's ministry belongs to the person doing the fund raising. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blw2 Posted March 14, 2016 Share Posted March 14, 2016 See the other thread about the BSA rules and regulations. Cannot find anything that says the gear is the property of the CO. I recently received a document from our council, while I was researching for my new job as troop treasurer... The document title was: FISCAL POLICIES AND PROCEDURES FOR BSA UNITS FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS What happens to the unit funds and equipment should the unit dissolve? The unit committee shall apply unit funds and property to the payment of unit obligations and shall turn over the surplus, if any, to the chartered organization or the council, as may be agreed upon, pending reorganization of the unit or for the promotion of the program of the Boy Scouts of America. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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