Taking boys "Jeepin".

[ham_solo]

Any opinions on how the G2SS would apply if we took some boys "jeepin"?   A bunch of us in the troop have jeeps and I have been asked if we could consider taking some of the older boys "jeeping" offroad, but I am not sure how the guide 2 safe scouting might apply.  I don't think these would count as the same rules as the little ATV type vehicles that some council camps let the scouts drive themselves, and that people are always flipping over etc..  yet, I don't know if this would count as normal vehicle driving.

 

We are talking about some pretty mild off-road trails in a park, not extreme rock crawling or anything like that.  Just gravel, mud, and maybe some stream crossing etc.

 

Anyone have any thoughts?

Edited March 11, 2016 by ham_solo

[MattHiggins]

Any opinions on how the G2SS would apply if we took some boys "jeepin"?   A bunch of us in the troop have jeeps and I have been asked if we could consider taking some of the older boys "jeeping" offroad, but I am not sure how the guide 2 safe scouting might apply.  I don't think these would count as the same rules as the little ATV type vehicles that some council camps let the scouts drive themselves, and that people are always flipping over etc..  yet, I don't know if this would count as normal vehicle driving.

 

We are talking about some pretty mild off-road trails in a park, not extreme rock crawling or anything like that.  Just gravel, mud, and maybe some stream crossing etc.

 

Anyone have any thoughts?

I wouldn't mix the two. I would make it clear it wasn't a Scout activity.

[Sentinel947]

I agree, ask your son if he wants to go, have him invite his friends. Not a Scouting activity. 

[qwazse]

Of you're asking, there may be a little voice that is nagging you. But in case you give it a go ...

Jeep with a purpose. Have the boys ...

• Talk top the ranger/property owner.
• Identify some potential conservation project.
• Plan an overnight.
• Learn about maintenance. Check the fluids
• Rules for safe conduct. Helmets etc ...

[Krampus]

Agree, not a Scout activity.

 

Imagine having to explain yourself if something goes wrong. Happens hiking, no problem. Jeep roles? Yeah, I wouldn't want to be you.

[The Blancmange]

It's not an unauthorized activity.  I don't see anything in the G2SS that would prohibit it.  Is your chartering org. OK with it?  I would submit a tour plan, and if it's not rejected, you're good to go.  

[Krampus]

It's not an unauthorized activity.  I don't see anything in the G2SS that would prohibit it.  Is your chartering org. OK with it?  I would submit a tour plan, and if it's not rejected, you're good to go.  

 

Well, if ATVs and snowmobiles are only for certain ages/scouts, then clearly off-roading would be beyond even those approved ages/scouts. 

 

The only grey area I've ever seen is go karting.

[The Blancmange]

Well, if ATVs and snowmobiles are only for certain ages/scouts, then clearly off-roading would be beyond even those approved ages/scouts. 

 

The only grey area I've ever seen is go karting.

I inferred that the original poster meant that adults would be driving the jeeps.  

[KenD500]

Clarification needed.

 

Who will be driving the Jeeps?  Adults? or Scouts?

[Krampus]

I inferred that the original poster meant that adults would be driving the jeeps.

 

Clarification needed.

 

Who will be driving the Jeeps?  Adults? or Scouts?

 

Don't think it matters. If go-karts and ATVs are only allowed by Boy Scouts at a professional facility or council, it stands to reason that four-wheeling done by adults in the unit would be prohibited. An adult cannot drive an ATV with a Scout on it because the entire activity is prohibited by BSA *unless* it is done at a professional facility or council camp.

 

Even *if* it were allowed, it would like fall in to the same category as other "high adventure" activities and would require someone certified in WFA. Would also require a tour plan. 

 

If you are going to do it best to do it as private citizens without wearing and BSA gear.

Edited March 11, 2016 by Krampus

[qwazse]

 

... If you are going to do it best to do it as private citizens without wearing and BSA gear.

In one sense I agree. It's already for a "select few", so why call it a troop thing?

 

On the other hand, we're talking older boys who can probably get a hold of a vehicle and (like more than one scout I know) go off-roading with his buddies/girlfriends and break its axle in a ravine or get it buried in mud above the wheel wells ... then, to avoid getting the 'rents angry, radio his other buddy to grab the tow truck from the fire hall ... thus getting his buddy in trouble when the chief sees that one spot of mud that was missed ... but no entry on the requisition log.

 

I'm just saying sometimes sheltering the boys can cause the harm you're trying to avoid.

[Stosh]

What's wrong with hiking?

[Krampus]

 

I'm just saying sometimes sheltering the boys can cause the harm you're trying to avoid.

 

I go four-wheeling every other weekend (Texan, it is in our blood) so believe me, I get this.

 

But we are talking a Scouting activity. As far as that goes it is strictly out of bounds whether an adult drives or a Scout drives.

 

I would totally get behind this as a private individual thing. Gotta teach guys how to care for their trucks and how to pick a route while four-wheeling. Some good advice now could save them from ending up on "World's Dumbest...".

[Rick_in_CA]

Don't think it matters. If go-karts and ATVs are only allowed by Boy Scouts at a professional facility or council, it stands to reason that four-wheeling done by adults in the unit would be prohibited. An adult cannot drive an ATV with a Scout on it because the entire activity is prohibited by BSA *unless* it is done at a professional facility or council camp.

I don't agree with you. I don't think extrapolating from the go-kart and ATV rules is valid in this case. With go-kars and ATV's, they are driven by the scouts, and riding them is generally a high risk activity. That is different from riding as a passenger in an SUV on a dirt road. Can off-roading in an SUV be dangerous? Yes. But so can driving the family car to the local supermarket.

 

The other problem with assuming "four-wheeling" is not allowed is, what then is the actual rule? Scouts can't ride in a four wheel drive vehicle? Can't ride in a vehicle on an unpaved road? Can't cross a ford? Can't ride in a car if snow chains are required?

 

Is a "jeep" a one, two or four wheeled cart? In which case no one under the age of 14 can ride in one?

[Krampus]

I don't agree with you. I don't think extrapolating from the go-kart and ATV rules is valid in this case. With go-kars and ATV's, they are driven by the scouts, and riding them is generally a high risk activity. That is different from riding as a passenger in an SUV on a dirt road. Can off-roading in an SUV be dangerous? Yes. But so can driving the family car to the local supermarket.

I ran this issue past our council exec (shoots at same range and ran in to him). He said that ATV and go karts are ONLY to be done by scouts are professional tracks OR at council camps. No other time are they permitted...EVEN IF adults are driving. As he said, it is the ACTIVITY that is prohibited and not a matter of who drives. About four-wheeling, he simply said, "There's a reason BSA does not offer four-wheeling. If ATVs are limited to council camps and professional tracks, then it is implied that four-wheeling is right out." He added, "

We don't preclude bazookas and RPGs from the shooting sports activities either, but at some point common sense tells you boys don't belong doing those things in Scouting." A fair point, and why four-wheeling would be a bad idea, if not out rightly banned.

 

The other problem with assuming "four-wheeling" is not allowed is, what then is the actual rule? Scouts can't ride in a four wheel drive vehicle? Can't ride in a vehicle on an unpaved road? Can't cross a ford? Can't ride in a car if snow chains are required?

See firearms analogy. And don't say there are not the same. BSA cannot be in a position of defining every little thing that is/is not in scope or banned. At some point common sense comes in. BSA has set their upper limits for firearms and off roading. Anything higher is assumed out.