Troop Level Training for Boy Leaders

[Hedgehog]

A PL can facilitate his patrol in deciding on the menu,

 

Or the Grubmaster can take the lead and work with the boys directly and more efficiently. 

 

remind the Grubmaster to talk to the QM to make sure he has the right gear (e.g. Dutch Ovens for the pasta),

 

Which would be a clear indication that the PL is letting the Grubmaster know he isn't capable of doing his job and has to be reminded over and over again what he needs to do to MANAGE his job.  That will surely support and encourage any boy to endeavor to ever take on that job.

 

work with the Grubmaster to assign cooking duties

 

Is there such a thing as helicopter PL?

 

and work with the TG to make sure that boys who need to demonstrate cooking skills get the opportunity.

 

super helicopter PL doing the job of everyone on the team.   Sounds like a severe trust issue going on with the PL running around reminding everyone how little he trusts their ability to do the job they were supposed to be doing.

 

 That is leadership on the PL's part by making sure the GM, QM and TG all suceed in their positions of responsibility.

 

And this exactly how to insure they won't!  Why should I do the work if the PL is going to cover all the bases himself.   

 

 

I'm seeing a serious lack of support leadership going on in this troop.   Your son has more problems than just being a GM.  As a parent I would be talking to the SM/ASM/TG/SPL and find out why they are expecting an untrained boy to do the job.  Where's his PL in all of this? 

 

 

 

@@Stosh

 

Isn't your advice about a "lack of support leadership" contradicting your criticism of my statement that the PL is responsible for making sure the other scouts are suceeding their positions of responsibility?  

 

Sometimes, I get the feeling that if someone else says something, you will tell them it is wrong.  But if you say the same thing, then it is the best way to proceed.

 

I've studied leadership not only in college, but throughout my life.  One of the things that stuck with me was that excellent leaders ADAPT to a situation.  What works for one situation may not necessarily work in other situations.  The best solution is one that takes into account all of the nuances of the situation.

 

Much of what you advocate is a scouting utopia, where every scout is perfect and does exactly what is required of them without any supervison or guidance from other scouts or adults.  Maybe that is your troop, but the rest of us have to deal with imperfect scouts, imperfect parents and imperfect leaders and we do our best to deliver a quality program under those circumstances. 

[Stosh]

@@Stosh

 

Isn't your advice about a "lack of support leadership" contradicting your criticism of my statement that the PL is responsible for making sure the other scouts are suceeding their positions of responsibility?  

 

Nope, Hedge, revisit the context.  Scout Son is the GM, but the SM/ASM/TG/etc. wouldn't be able to meet with the new GM before the event so as to give guidance.  So, we have a boy given responsibility, no training and no support from anyone, thus the "lack of support leadership".

 

Sometimes, I get the feeling that if someone else says something, you will tell them it is wrong.  But if you say the same thing, then it is the best way to proceed.

 

Seriously?  I don't care one way or the other how people run their programs.  But if they are having problems with their programs which seem to be a lot of problems from what I hear on this forum, then all I am offering is another option to maybe consider.  It seems to be working just fine for me, maybe the same thing in your hands is the worst thing in the world for you.  Ya takes ya chances .    I sure wish that people would get over this constant need to judge and just look at the material at face value and if they think it might help their situation, fine, use it.  If not go on to the next comment on the thread and give that a try.

 

I've studied leadership not only in college, but throughout my life.  One of the things that stuck with me was that excellent leaders ADAPT to a situation.  What works for one situation may not necessarily work in other situations.  The best solution is one that takes into account all of the nuances of the situation.

 

And the comment I was making was that no one leader in any group has all the answers, can solve all the problems or be all to end all.  No two persons are alike.  Some are better skilled at certain tasks than other.  Some have different interests than others.  Some people are small and carry the weight of a big person.  Look at BSA, they have a Roundtable, duh, a direct reference to the legendary King Arthur where no one knight at the table including the KING was leader over any of the other, but in fact they were all leaders in their own right with their own skillls, their own talents and their own interests.  So the PL doesn't need to be the leader anymore than King Arthur needed to be the leader all the time.  Some of my best leaders are the ones that simply shut up and listen.

 

Much of what you advocate is a scouting utopia, where every scout is perfect and does exactly what is required of them without any supervison or guidance from other scouts or adults.  Maybe that is your troop, but the rest of us have to deal with imperfect scouts, imperfect parents and imperfect leaders and we do our best to deliver a quality program under those circumstances. 

 

I can't be held responsible for what other people think I wrote.  I can only take responsibility for what I wrote.

Edited March 11, 2016 by Stosh

[HICO_Eagle]

The troop I was involved with used to run TLT twice a year as an invited campout shortly after elections.  We would go through the normal BSA TLT instruction supplemented with some confidence/team-building games outside and I added some video clips from various movies for discussion.  I think I still have the PowerPoint with the video clips on DropBox -- PM or email me for a link.

[HICO_Eagle]

You all are beginning to make me think that a few rounds of British bulldog has more leadership training potential than most of what we pawn off as such ...

 

It may be somewhat heretical here but I think British Bulldog has more value than most of the "training" advocated by National over the past decade or so.  I tend to fall in Stosh's camp about letting the boys learn by doing; as an adult, I can give them lessons I've learned over the years and will if requested but the boys are the ones who have to learn to lead and part of that is seeing what works for them as situations and personalities differ.

Edited March 11, 2016 by HICO_Eagle

[Hedgehog]

The troop I was involved with used to run TLT twice a year as an invited campout shortly after elections.  We would go through the normal BSA TLT instruction supplemented with some confidence/team-building games outside and I added some video clips from various movies for discussion.  I think I still have the PowerPoint with the video clips on DropBox -- PM or email me for a link.

 

 

I appreciate the offer, but I'm not planning to use Powerpoint at all. The games sound interesting, but Im thinking of using real challenges to teach leadership and teamwork  

[MattR]

@@Hedgehog, I'm trying to make a list of challenges as well. While I would like to do this on a campout I just don't have the time to put that together. (Once I put together something that included climbing, shotgun, and canoes and it was fantastic, but the overhead to put it together was too much.) So, this time it will have to be in town. I also want to create scenarios with people problems; overbearing adults, troublesome scouts from other patrols, immature scouts in the patrol. So, some simple challenges with hidden problems.

 

I'm all ears with any ideas you have. I only have two weeks to put this together.

 

I was also wondering about doing a very simple ticket activity. So, after the training each scout would have to find something his patrol would like to do, and make it happen, hopefully using what he learned in the training. Sort of edge method.

[qwazse]

@@Hedgehog... I also want to create scenarios with people problems; overbearing adults, troublesome scouts from other patrols, immature scouts in the patrol. So, some simple challenges with hidden problems. ...

As in, what happens in every patrol I've ever known.

[blw2]

listening to the most recent podcast over at scoutmastercg.com

and Clarke referred to an article he wrote some time ago.

I like the short and direct approach.  Cuts to the chase beautifully I think

http://scoutmastercg.com/fifteen-minute-patrol-leader-training/

 

In thinking about our ILST course I "audited" recently... I can't think of anything that was covered in it that would be missed, if you just followed this little 15 minute idea.

The rest of it..... subtle techniques and such could and maybe should be handled on the fly, case by case.  They would mean more to the scouts that way.

[blw2]

apologies if this was previously mentioned....

 

At what frequency is ILST intended to be repeated?

 

Our troop requires it after every election for every scout holding a position.  (our elections are on a 6 month cycle)

No matter if they've taken the course at many previous offerings

 

Just seems a little silly to me.  I got to thinking about that 15 minute training I linked to in my previous post, 

I could see requiring ILST annually perhaps since kids at the scout age might not remember past last month.... or maybe every 2-3 years

especially if this little 15 minute training conversation was used as a refresh

[Sentinel947]

apologies if this was previously mentioned....

 

At what frequency is ILST intended to be repeated?

 

Our troop requires it after every election for every scout holding a position.  (our elections are on a 6 month cycle)

No matter if they've taken the course at many previous offerings

 

Just seems a little silly to me.  I got to thinking about that 15 minute training I linked to in my previous post, 

I could see requiring ILST annually perhaps since kids at the scout age might not remember past last month.... or maybe every 2-3 years

especially if this little 15 minute training conversation was used as a refresh

I'd say every year or every other is probably sufficient. But no formal training course can replace the role of a mentor. 

Edited March 14, 2016 by Sentinel947

[Krampus]

 

At what frequency is ILST intended to be repeated?

 

 

 

Never. Better to forget it and use something useful.

[Stosh]

I don't use it so I can't answer that question.

[blw2]

Never. Better to forget it and use something useful.

yeah, ok... I'll agree.  you've got me on that one I think....

 

So I'm guessing they haven't defined it then... like they did with so much of the adult stuff that expires.....

[Krampus]

yeah, ok... I'll agree.  you've got me on that one I think....

 

So I'm guessing they haven't defined it then... like they did with so much of the adult stuff that expires.....

 

I believe the actual answer is they want you to run it once a year, that is if you want to check off TLT as part of  your JTE. That's the only place I see it but I could have missed it elsewhere.