Permission slips

[dfolson]

Every time our Troop has an activity there is a permission slip sent out for parents to sign.  I have never seen anywhere that this is required.  When I ask why - it is just what has always been done.  Does every one else do it too?  Next week they boys are going to a local bowling alley. Is a permission slip required?  Does anyone have an annual - non event specific form they use?

 

Thanks

[qwazse]

There is this from national http://www.scouting.org/filestore/pdf/19-673.pdf

"The recommended use of this form is for the consent and approval for Cub Scouts, Boy Scouts, Varsity Scouts, Venturers, and guests to participate in a trip, expedition, or activity. It is required for use with flying plans."

 

So, recommended, not required. My kid's troops and crews never used them for routine campouts, bowling night, shooting sports days, etc ...

Usually for activities that are more strenuous (skiing, whitewater, climbing) the outfitter requires its own release forms, so I treat those as permission slips.

 

Growing up, SM handed us the slips (not nearly as much verbiage as the form linked above), SPL read the activity info, and we filled in the blanks. Then we got the 'rents signature that evening and had it in our handbooks ready to turn in (along with fees) at the next meeting. Beneath the signature was a line like "I can drive __ scouts to and __ scouts from the activity." So the slip was as much about securing transportation.

 

So I suspect for some units it's been the routine for time out of mind. For others, a handshake would do,

Edited March 4, 2016 by John-in-KC
Emphasis on the requirement for use with flight.

[Krampus]

Every time our Troop has an activity there is a permission slip sent out for parents to sign.  I have never seen anywhere that this is required.  When I ask why - it is just what has always been done.  Does every one else do it too?  Next week they boys are going to a local bowling alley. Is a permission slip required?  Does anyone have an annual - non event specific form they use?

 

Thanks

 

ROFL, I asked the same question and got the same answer. When you ask a lawyer they tell you permissions slips are useless. A few years back we went over to the BSA consent form. We collect them electronically from the parents/guardians and keep them on file (secure Google drive). The Scouting blog answered this question here. We make sure there is an (electronic) page that describes all activities and that the parents understand that 1) the events have at least some inherent dangers (e.g. camping usually means seeing snakes, raccoons, etc.) and 2) that their Scout will not be under supervision 100% of the times (e.g., boys need to use good judgement and not go unapproved night time rock climbing).

 

Hope that helps.

 

[@@qwazse beat me to the punch]

Edited March 4, 2016 by Krampus

[T2Eagle]

Our Catholic Diocese' Youth Protection rules require them for overnight trips.  We have a Troop specific one that specifically lists the CO.

 

They don't provide much legal protection, if you're negligent and someone gets hurt because of it than you're going to be held liable for your negligence.

[T2Eagle]

I clicked on the Scouting Blog answer after my first post.  Like most BSA communications it treats us as if we were Tiger Cubs.  It restates that permission slips are recommended, but it doesn't give any reason why.  The answer "you should probably do this because we think it's a good idea" provides no actual guidance whatsoever.

 

I guess they do give some reason for them:Of course, our goal in all of this is to make sure that parents are aware of the kind of activities their youth will be participating in.

 

 

But I don't really find that credible as the reason for them.  We're adults, as capable and accomplished, or more so, than the people running the national organization.  Treat us that way and provide real, thoughtful, and accurate reasons for the things you think we should do on your and our own behalf.

[Eagledad]

I clicked on the Scouting Blog answer after my first post.  Like most BSA communications it treats us as if we were Tiger Cubs. 

THIS IS WHY THE BSA SHOULD TAKE TIGERS OUT OF THE CUB PROGRAM! 

 

Oh wait! Wrong discussion. Sorry

 

Barry

[eagle90]

We use them for all activities, but more for the imparting of information - Where we are going, when are we meeting, when will we gt home, what to bring, How much does it cost, isare parents coming with and able to drive, etc. 

 

Dale

[CalicoPenn]

We do use permission slips and require them for every non-meeting activity.  Weekend camping trip?  Permission slip.  Day Hike?  Permission slip.  Night of bowling?  Permission slip.  We used to just do an annual one but now we do one for every activity.

 

We know full well that they provide very little legal protection.  The reason we use them is two-fold.  The first is that a long while back, a Scout that was grounded and was told by his parents that he couldn't come on a camping trip showed up anyway - we had the annual permission slip and brought him along not knowing any thing was amiss.  Unfortunately this was before cell phones were common.  Fortunately, the lads parents figured it out (based on certain items being missing) and didn't panic.  Had it been the son of a couple of other more tightly wound parents we had in the Troop, I have no doubt that we would have been interrupted at some point by flashing red lights. 

 

The other reason is that it helps to keep down the complaints by parents that they didn't know their son was going to be doing some activity that the parents disapprove of though we still usually get one or two a year, usually for our annual clay pigeon shooting trip - of course, it's usually the spouse that has signed it - but it makes it their issue, not ours.  I know, I know - we could avoid that if we got both parents to sign it but a few years back, one of our single parents offhandedly mentioned that it always bother her a little to sign a form that had space for two parent's signatures - she wasn't adamant about it or insistent that we change our form - it just came out in conversation about all the forms that parents have to sign for their children's school and activities.  We took it to heart and changed our form.

 

We just make it a simple form - we describe the time, date, location and what the activity is, then provide a space for a parent to sign.  That's it - no legalize, just an acknowledgment that a parent is aware of the activity being done.

[blw2]

We use them, as far as I know for everything except troop meetings, and probably getting together for a service project at our CO... something like that.

Personally, I think it makes sense any time a troop adult is going to be driving scouts, such as going to a campout... even if it's your own son but then just for consistancy.

They shouldn't be necessary I think when it's a local / parent drop-off thing like bowling, unless it's something inherently dangerous

ROFL, I asked the same question and got the same answer. When you ask a lawyer they tell you permissions slips are useless. A few years back we went over to the BSA consent form. We collect them electronically from the parents/guardians and keep them on file (secure Google drive). The Scouting blog answered this question here. We make sure there is an (electronic) page that describes all activities and that the parents understand that 1) the events have at least some inherent dangers (e.g. camping usually means seeing snakes, raccoons, etc.) and 2) that their Scout will not be under supervision 100% of the times (e.g., boys need to use good judgement and not go unapproved night time rock climbing).

 

Hope that helps.

 

[@@qwazse beat me to the punch]

I'm curious about how you use "secure Google Drive".... as in is it something other than a standard google drive account?

Something I'd like to do is to get it digitally, so that anyone that might need them has access.  For example...It would be a bummer if the one person that has the paper copies suddenly can't make the campout

ditto medical forms and such....

But there is some resistance to putting personal info online

[Krampus]

The other reason is that it helps to keep down the complaints by parents that they didn't know their son was going to be doing some activity that the parents disapprove of...

 

My friend's troop -- not too long ago -- had a parent complain that her scout go injured during a camp out. He got a few cactus needles in his foot. Was not watching where he was going (went off the path on way to the bathroom) and accidentally kicked a cactus (in sneakers). She was upset that the troop leaders did not "protect" he son. Wanted to know why the leaders didn't specifically mention there would be cactus (and other dangers) on the camp out. The leaders pointed to the permission slip and noted that hiking boots were strongly suggested (can't require) and why. Didn't feel the need to point out cactus was likely going to be there because, well, THIS IS TEXAS!!! You can't swing a dead cat without hitting cactus!!!!

 

She got the message. Boys get hurt when they don't listen or are not properly prepared.

 

 

I'm curious about how you use "secure Google Drive".... as in is it something other than a standard google drive account?

The BSA discourages online saving of medical forms. Just never a good idea. Try this article on how to secure your Google Drive. Works well.

[Torchwood]

We use p-slips for every outing, for informational purposes. As for medical forms, we have all of them in paper form in a briefcase that goes where we go 9in the outing leader's possession), and an additional pair of USB sticks that 2 other leaders carry, just in case.

Edited March 4, 2016 by Torchwood

[qwazse]

 

... THIS IS TEXAS!!! You can't swing a dead cat without hitting cactus!!!!...

But you'd have more fun swinging a live one!

[Stosh]

The only time I have ever used P-slips is when someone else went through the hassle of getting them.

 

We have the medical records of all the boys with us with all the contact and medical  information on it.  If it changes it is up to the parents to let us know.  If their boy shows up on our doorstep for an outing and the parent does not want us to take them, it's up to them to lock them up at home.

 

If there's a last minute change of information on the medical form, i.e. mom and dad are out of town, Gram and Graps are the contact, it is the parent's responsibility to let us know.

 

All the parents are told up front that by signing the registration form, they are giving permission for any and all scout activities unless they notify us in writing the boy is not allowed to go they don't show iup in the first place.

 

Little Johnny got hurt?  Shouldn't have sent him in the first place.  But parents didn't know he would get hurt, and as scouters we didn't either.  Of course the boy was breaking the rules when he got hurt, that counts in court too.

Edited March 4, 2016 by Stosh

[Recycle]

As a Cycling MBC, I ask scouts, and sometimes parents and adult leaders, to demonstrate bike handling skills in a parking lot and on roads.  Bicycling is a relatively safe activity, but bad things beyond my control could happen.   I would never ask anyone to demonstrate anything on a bicycle without first having them sign a liability waiver.  

 

I have been unable to find any details about the coverage provided by the BSA policy.  However, as a League of American Bicyclists Cycling Instructor, I am covered by a League policy, as long as participants in the activity sign the League's event waiver.  This is what I ask parents and adult leaders to sign.

Edited March 4, 2016 by Recycle

[Sentinel947]

We used to do a permission slip for each outing when I was a scout. My folks and I just made photocopies of the form, Mom signed it and I filled in the outing and the date each month...... defeating the purpose of the form...

 

A few years back we went to an annual permission slip. I don't handle that aspect of things. It seems to be going well.