Kentucky, Crooked Creek, and other stuff

[Proud Eagle]

I noticed at least two members mentioned they will be going to Crooked Creek for camp this year. (It is a fine camp facility. Everyone I know refers to it as the "state park" of summer camps, because it looks like every detail from buildings, to trails, to signs were designed by the park service. However, I have never experienced the summer camp program there.)

 

Anywase, I happen to be in Louisville for the time being. I sometimes drop in at Talligewi Lodge events. (I can also be seen at many White Horse Lodge events.) So if anyone happens to be heading to one of those events, let me know since I may see you there.

 

(This message has been edited by Proud Eagle)

[ScouterPaul]

Proud Eagle

Our Troop has attended Camp Crooked Creek the last two years and will be going again this year. I don't have a lot of experience with other camps so my opinion might be of limited use. The facilites are excellent with a waterfront that allows water skiing, motor boating, canoeing sailing, mile swim ect. The Dan Boone (first year scout) program is okay, I feel that they try to get to much done. Merit Badge sessions are also okay. The level of instruction on some is suspect. Overall I think it is a good camp.

[EagleInKY]

Proud one - I, too, am in Louisville. I attended Crooked Creek for the first time last year (after a spell of Cub Scouting). It's an excellent camp, beautiful surroundings and well laid out. I don't like the Dan Boone program. (Sorry, I just don't care for the cram everything through First Class in one week concept). It has excellent opportunties for the older scouts (COPE, water skiing, etc.). Some of the counselors, as Paul mentioned, are suspect. You can usually find out at the 10-day out meeting (they already know their problems by them), and can try to steer your scouts away from them. Last year, I was warned about one particular area, but I ignored it. I wish I hadn't. The staff isn't the friendliest I've seen, but they do a good job. The professional staff is courteous and listen to the SMs concerns.

 

Back in the 80s I worked on staff at Camp McKee in Eastern Kentucky. It was, at the time, the best camp in the state. It has aged a lot since them (as have I). I think CCC sets the standard for this area right now.

[Eagle74]

Last summer was our troop's first at Crooked Creek. Before deciding on CCC, my wife, younger son and I checked out CCC and McKee. McKee was in the middle of a major renovation project, but most of the aging facilities still existed. We decided that CCC was the better bet of the two.

 

For the previous six years or so we went to Chief Logan in southeast Ohio. As a scout I went to Camp Friedlander (original) on the east side of Cincinnati. As an ASM in the late 70's, early 80's took in a couple of others. We have not been to summer camp at the new Camp Friedlander, but are very familiar with it since it is literally in our backyard. Every camp has it's own personality, just like different troops have different personalities.

 

While we were there, Chief Logan ran an "open program" - while some things were on a set schedule, most areas were open for scouts to walk in at any time to work on advancements or hang with the staff. It was a very friendly, very upbeat setting and our troop always had a good time (too much singing for my taste, but that's a personal thing). The beauty of it was a very visible, approachable, friendly staff and the boys liked that it wasn't just like going to school. The dining hall is small and poorly ventilated, making for a crowded, sometimes miserably hot mealtime. Tents are set up each week by the incoming troop and taken down before leaving. The last couple of years things seemed to be going downhill in the services dept. like food and facilities, and organizationally things seemed to be running less smoothly.

 

I'll second many of the observations made about CCC, above. Good facilities, well arranged, big lake, decent overall program. The "scheduled program" is good for cranking out advancements, but very much like being in school. The offerings for experienced scouts are good. I also was not particularly enamoured by the Dan Boone program for new scouts; too much emphasis on getting lots of requirements signed off; too little emphasis on quality. I think the staff needs to be more approachable (for scouts), a little more friendly, and a little more visible. A scout would see some staff members for an hour for class and then never really be able to interact with them any other time because they retreated into staff world. Some of our scouts would really have liked to be able to get back to a skill area for more time working on projects, etc., but the area would only be "open" during limited times each day for specified classes.

 

If I could take the best of Logan (like the upbeat atmosphere, very friendly staff, and at least a semi-open program) and put it together with the best of CCC (great facilities, wider range of opportunities for advancements, activities for seasoned scouts), that would be the icing on the cake.

[Proud Eagle]

I really intended this to just be a bit about the possibility that some of us may cross paths in the future, but since we have gotten on the subject of camps I will share a bit. I must say I agree with all the comments about the camp itself. The facilities are excellent. The location is quite nice as well, being just an easy 30 min drive from downtown Louisville, yet still feeling like it is the middle of nowhere when you are there. I know of several SM and ASM from my home council that have been to Crooked Creek in recent years and seemed to think it was a quality camp.

Some of the Scouts from my troop will be attending McKee this summer. I have never been there for anything, but will be going there for the conclave this spring. Another SM in my hometown loves the place and recommended it.

My own experience with summer camp in Kentucky is limited to Camp Roy C. Manchester (featured recently in Scouting magazine). I went to that camp four times, including once for the high adventure sailing program.  That camp has the massive advantage of location. Being on on Kentucky Lake, or a similar body of water, is certainly something only a few camps can boast of. The facilities are neither the best nor the worst I have ever seen. The most unique feature of normal camp life is the fact that troops must bring and use their own tents, unless they get one of the two sites with cabins. The program also has a few unique items (some new for this year) such as a high adventure sailing program on Kentucky Lake, biking and backpacking at Land Between the Lakes. Unfortunately a couple of years ago there were many bad reports about program, though the past year seems to have been a considerable improvement by most accounts.

The first camp I attended Old Ben in southern Indiana. The camp is nice for the most part. It is an old partially reclaimed coal mine. The camp layout is interesting with the dining hall on a large hill in the middle and everything else built around it in a circle. The greatest problems at the time were severe mosquito infestation and some organizational problems that hampered staff effectiveness and camper enjoyment.

The second camp I attended was Camp Daniel Boone in North Carolina. It was a fine camp. The facilities are all old and somewhat grand. The program was great, though aquatics were challenging due to the very cold water temperatures. The camp was built in a long, narrow valley with the major building and lake near the bottom, the camp sites arranged in more or less a line going up the valley. A cool mountain stream runs the length of it. It can make for long walks to and from camp. The most interesting program feature were a white water rafting trip run by the camp and a 50 miler trip.

More recently I attended Skymont in Tennessee. I can think of no complaint about the camp on my part. They have good facilities, staff, and program. They do have standard merit badge classes and other programs. The neatest features is they take one day, have no classes, and instead have patrol and camp wide games.

The most recent camp I have attended was Walwood in Florida. The best thing I can say is that the staff meant well. Unfortunately good will was about all they seemed to have.

[EagleInKY]

Proud one - You're right, we certainly spun that one out of control. Well, not as bad as some I've seen.

 

I don't participate in much of the OA stuff, our troop is young and we don't have any boys in yet. I figure I'll be getting back into that in the next year or two. Hope I see you along the trail someday.

[Eagle74]

And an informative spin it was.

[ROOTBEER]

I, too, grew up in the big city of E-town. I spent many summers at Rough River, and for the last year of Camp Cover Bridge. They were great camps. Also I was staff for the 1st year of CCC. Tapped out there of OA(lodge 213) WWW.

 

Now I live where the Council does not want to put money into a camp going on 78 years. I wish that they had the drive to revamp the camp. Even the OA Lodge has problems. But that is why we are all in Scouts, to try to fix the problems.

[T165Scouter]

Pround Eagle...just a note about Old Ben Scout Reservation. I would encourage you to come back, as many improvements have been made just over the past couple of years. I'm at Old Ben quite a bit for different activities and am amazed at the positive changes I see every time. The Camp Director and Ranger at the site are first class...they know what they're doing. Improvements to camp sites, cabins, trails, and the waterfront are being made all the time. Summer Camp was a blast! In fact, just last night my son told me he can't wait until this year's camp gets here! (Something is obviously being done right when I hear things like this).

 

If you're interested in finding out more about the current state of the camp, please go to www.buffalotracecouncil.org and click on the Old Ben link. There's some contact information there, but no pictures (why, I don't know).

[Proud Eagle]

I suppose it was all the way back in 1995 when I was at Old Ben. I was also a very new Scout, so my perception was likely a bit flawed.

 

At the time the facilities seemed very nice. The layout was a bit unique, but I didn't really see that as a plus or minus. The Amish or Mennonite or whatever they were cooks were exceptional. The old chaplain seemed like a good guy. The dining hall procedure was excellent. I particularly liked the detail of filling everyone's glass with water, essentially forcing everyone to have one glass of real water before switching to kool-aid. There were certainly many high quality, knowledgeable staffers.

 

There were some problems, as is the case with every camp. Some staff members were intentionally malicious, taking advantage of the first year, out of council, campers. There were little details like the staff telling us the best way to get to the next destination was taking the long way around the camp road. Generally the staff seemed somewhat unorganized and sometimes disinterested. Then there was the troop that set up a toll gate on the main camp trail going down hill from the dining hall (referred to as "highway 1" if I remember correctly).

 

I am certainly glad to here that improvements have been made. It seemed to be a camp with great potential. I imagine I would have had a better time if some troop level conditions had been just a bit different that week, and if I had been a more experienced Scout.