New to all of this

[BkJennifer]

Hello to all 

 

My name is Jennifer and i am a Tiger den leader , this is my 1st time in cub scouts so I am learning with my den as we go.

I started the year with 8 Tigers now I have 6. The biggest problem I am having is with the parents . They don't work on activities at home with there scouts .

There are some requirements that have to be completed at home and they don't do them. My son has completed 5 out of the 6 required adventures and the rest of the den have done 2 so far. I always set up field trips for the boys but i get a small turn out or just me and my son show up. I am getting so frustrated . I have sat with just the parents and gone over the handbook because a few of them were confused, and I showed them what they can do on there own and what not to worry about because we will do as a den. I'm not sure what else to do to help them . Thanks for listen

 

[qwazse]

Welcome to the forum, and thanks for all your service to the boys!

 

I once had a relative on the phone in frustration about this ... he was a leader of one boy and it looked like his other son wasn't going to earn Bear. My answer was of great comfort "Then he doesn't earn, Bear ... so what?"

 

Your job is not to make sure everybody earns their awards. Your position as DL is to show the boys the opportunities they can take with their parents. If they don't take them, it's on the boys. (Trust me, if the kid really was gun-ho about the activity ... Mom or Dad would beat down the door to make it happen!)

 

As far as you are concerned ... only plan trips that you and your son will enjoy. He is having fun with you on these activities, right?

 

Come Pack meeting night, give the boy whose earned it his award. If it's your son, thank him for being your buddy on some fun activities. For every other boys, give him a handshake and let them know "you are just X activities away from earning your award" and leave it up to him to read his book and figure out what he'd like to do with his parents.

[blw2]

Hi, and welcome!  I started participating here when my son was Tiger and I was an Assistant DL, and found this sight a great resource for brainstorming, venting, and so on.  The tempo and feel of the conversations change from time to time depending on participants and topics so keep coming back for different thoughts and topics.

 

It's a different program now, & I only looked at some overview training in preparation when I was Cubmaster, but haven't actually worked with it, so I can't give thoughts on program specifics.

But I will say that you are not alone!

 

I tried almost everything, and had no luck.  Some parents are into it, and others are not. Some packs have great energy, other do not.

 

One thing I eventually learned about the requirements, is that they take the fun out of it for the scouts

for example

At first my son would bring his book to me eager to work on it, but that excitement faded.

I found that my being aware of the requirements helped me to steer my son into completing things without his even knowing it.  For example, there was a requirement at some point (probably not Tiger year), to do some car repair, check the oil or some such thing.  Well one saturday morning when I was heading out to replace a light bulb, I called him out to help.  He was interested, we covered the requirement + a few more things.... and then I said, go get your book...)

 

I honestly think this is the best way to do almost EVERYTHING in cubs

 

Anyway, In the end, I pretty much gave up on that quest.  

 

• The DL and I tried to focus on Fun first, and requirements mostly second.
• I decided that tracking the stuff really just wasn't important
• I noticed that the scouts didn't care about the bling.... they just wanted to have fun with their friends.

 

and something that I think would have helped, but I could never get the DL to do, was more shared leadership at the tiger level.

The old program anyway, was based on a tiger/parent team doing the meetings, rotating through... so that you as DL would assign the next meeting to Bill and his mom, the meeting after that to little Joe and his dad, and so on.  Let them pick the topic or you assign it.  The thing is, it forces involvement and gets them going.

Parental involvement changed in later ranks, but it's a good way to start out.

 

• So, don't try to do everything yourself
• Get an Assistant DL if you don't have one
• and lean on the parents and scouts in a shared leadership role

[blw2]

and also great advice qwazse!

 

I think if we would have done what you suggest fully, most of our boys wouldn't have earned most of the ranks

they would have only completed what was done in the den mtgs

 

But they would have been perfectly ok with that.

[Krampus]

@@BkJennifer, sadly many parents want things spoon-fed to them. There's no substitute for them reading the book themselves.

 

I told my parents that if they didn't take the time to read the book WITH their Scout then their Scout would not progress. We lost one parent out of 14.

 

You can only point the parents in the right direction and hope they will do the right thing. They will either take an interest in their child or they won't. It's their choice, not your problem.

[Stosh]

Currently I have 34 eligible Webelos II boys poised to get AOL and cross over.

 

So far only about half have taken us up on it.  That means either the other half don't care, are planning on dropping anyway or the parents don't want to bother with weekly meetings.

 

In any case, if the boys don't get AOL and cross over it's not my fault.  I made the opportunity available.  If they didn't get the award they need to have a little sit-down chat with the folks. 

 

Boys need to know how this stuff all works.

 

If boy needs to get something done, parents don't help, then blame the DL???? I look at it this way.

 

The boy needs to get something done.  He doesn't take responsibility for that and parents don't teach him to take responsibility either.  Then everyone blames the DL???

 

Any boy looking to cross-over into my troop will need to keep looking because he won't be very happy there.

[BkJennifer]

Thank you every one for your kind words . I do have a Assistant Den Leader but she is one of the parents I have a problem with . She doesn't show up to events or meetings, she brings up events her son would enjoy and that have nothing to do with requirements in the book. My son in the beginning didn't really like scouting but once I showed him how much fun it could be now he can't wait for den meetings. I tell the parents before hand what pages we will be going over so they aren't blind sided, but I get a lot of excuses why they didn't go over them. I have a lot going on myself, I work full time , I have an older son with special needs that's  takes up most of my down time. My tiger scout is in baseball , Sunday school , but we find the time to do our scout stuff .   

[Sentinel947]

Thank you every one for your kind words . I do have a Assistant Den Leader but she is one of the parents I have a problem with . She doesn't show up to events or meetings, she brings up events her son would enjoy and that have nothing to do with requirements in the book. My son in the beginning didn't really like scouting but once I showed him how much fun it could be now he can't wait for den meetings. I tell the parents before hand what pages we will be going over so they aren't blind sided, but I get a lot of excuses why they didn't go over them. I have a lot going on myself, I work full time , I have an older son with special needs that's  takes up most of my down time. My tiger scout is in baseball , Sunday school , but we find the time to do our scout stuff .   

Welcome to the forum. Glad to see you are really giving your son a great experience. Ultimately the responsibility for the other boy's advancement is on them and their parents. You can only help them and point them in the right direction. 

[qwazse]

...Assistant Den Leader ... one of the parents I have a problem with . She doesn't show up to events or meetings, she brings up events her son would enjoy and that have nothing to do with requirements in the book

 

... I have a lot going on myself, I work full time , I have an older son with special needs that's  takes up most of my down time. My tiger scout is in baseball , Sunday school , but we find the time to do our scout stuff .   

Okay, so maybe we were too nice at the get-go.

 

Always remember this: you don't have a problem with other parents. They are bringing your boy some buddies ... one or two who may be life-long friends ... even to both of your sons.

 

You have a problem that there are so many good things this group of boys could do under the rubric of cub scouting, that it overdraws your collective time budget. Those excuses? They are just a common way of saying, "I don't want to invest time in your vision." Ideally, that would mean "I have a different awesome vision for our boys, and would like to invest time in that." But, usually it's just burnt-out-parent-speak for "I can't see beyond the here-and-now unless my son is screaming and jumping up and down to do it!" In other words, they don't see the return on their investment from chipping in on their time budget. It would be nice if they up and said it. My best scout parents were the ones who did. But, at you're age most everyone is too polite (hint: this is annoyingly true among church circles) so a leader like you sees heads nod then gets your hopes dashed when they don't follow through.

 

The best you can do:

Stop talking to the parents. Have the boys open to the page in their book. Give them a bookmark. (Sticky notes are good.) Send them on their way. If they come back with "Nada", say "That's okay, this is a new week, let's pick something else."

 

Let your ADL run with her one idea that the boys seem most excited about. It has nothing to do with requirements? So what? Worst case scenario, you all show up at the Pack meeting saying "We didn't get any awards, but Mrs. ___ got us into __ and it was a blast!" Chances are that one idea will be a light distraction, and will allow the boys to relax and feel good about trying something by the book the opposite week.

 

Recap: With what little time you have, and what few resources the parents have spared ... cheerfully keep a laser-like focus on the boys, the boys, the boys! Not the requirements, not what's left undone, not the folks who let you down. Do that, and twelve years from now, you might get an note from an Eagle scout who will remember that for one hour a week, you were all about him.

[SSScout]

Absotively, welcome to the Forums..  "A Funny Thing Happened on the way to the Forums"  

 

Oh, what has been said.   It is about the boys, not the parents.   If you can make the Boys (Tigers) see fun and success in Scouts, they (the Boys) will make the parents participate.  Scouts is one of the best things a parent can do with (or for?) their kid, boy or girl (problems with GSUSA not withstanding). 

I often tell folks , if they don't have a connection with their kid when  they are 10 or 12, they won't have that connection when they are 18. 

I agree that if your ADL has an idea, for certain, you should make it work.  Adapt it to have fun AND be Scouty.   Anything  a Scout does, anywhere he goes, it can be a Scout activity , assuming it does not disobey the Scout Promise or Law, or ignore the Guide to Safe Scouting! 

 

Use the Cub themes and BALOO'S BUGLE , and look up some of the old Cub Guides for ideas.   After all, all you can do is offer.   But do not give up on communication. Talk to the Cubs, leave the bookmark/sticky in their book.   Ask them, what might be fun to fulfill this requirement?  What might they do at home?  Ask them what their dad/mom does for a living?  Is it a possible Go and See?   Does somebody have a pet at home?  If you have an idea to pass the requirement for your Cubsonat your home,   talk about that to his Cub Buds.  Could they do that at their home? 

 

LIke Bob the Tomato says, "It's for the kids".  And think about all YOU are learning along the way!  It is, if you think about it,  not only for THEIR benefit alone!

 

See you on the trail!

[BkJennifer]

Thank you so much everyone . 

[meyerc13]

Sorry for joining the discussion late, but having gone through the whole Cub Scout program I felt I could add a bit to the conversation.  I don't think the Scouts stress this in their leader training as much as they used to, but a key principle has always been "Keep it Simple, Make it Fun."  At the Tiger age, I see boys who like to wear the uniform, want to go to camp and shoot BB Guns and Archery, and beyond that mostly want to have fun with their friends.  I think most of these driving factors stick around throughout Cub Scouts, although wearing the uniform (properly) seems to be left behind at times.

 

Also, don't forget the Cub Scout Motto:  Do your Best!

 

That applies to Den Leaders, parents, and Cub Scouts.  Does that mean that sometimes we have to adapt the program a bit to fit geography, climate, or schedules?  I think it does.  I remember stressing out as a Tiger Den Leader trying to get in a hike, and every Monday night we tried to do it resulted in thunderstorms.  If I scheduled something else, it would be a perfectly nice night.  Finally, one night I showed up for our meeting and it was sunny and beautiful.  I ditched my plans for the night and took the boys and parents on a hike through a neighborhood park.  It wasn't quite what I wanted to do for a hike, but they boys had fun.

 

The new program is great, and has lots of great ideas, but some feedback I've gotten from Den Leaders is that there is just too much in some of the Meeting Plans to get it all done.  When possible, we go back to the actual requirements to determine whether something in the meeting plan is directly tied to a requirement, or whether it is just extra fluff to add more fun to the adventure.  We try to strike a balance between hitting all of the requirements, while still keeping it fun.  It's our first year with these requirements, so I know we didn't do a perfect job, but I saw boys having a ton of fun.  Building Castles out of cardboard boxes for the Good Knights Adventure... some very abstract art for the Stores in Shapes Adventure... I wish I was a Tiger Cub adult partner again!

 

I wish I could tell you that eventually parents will get on board with the program, but let's face it, most of us don't like homework.  Most of the requirements are things you can do in the meeting, especially since parents have to be there with their son at the Tiger age.  Try to incorporate most of the things into Den Meetings and you can keep the boys advancing, even if you have to deviate from the Meeting Plans a bit to do it.  When possible, schedule field trips on the same day/time as Den Meetings and I think you'll get better attendance.  Send home progress reports with the parents outlining what their son has to do with them to get caught up.

 

I'm curious what the events were that the other Den Leader suggested but that have nothing to do with the requirements?  I wonder if some of them could fulfill a requirement with some creativity.  Or, maybe those could be a reward for everyone finishing their homework with their parents?  As long as they fall within the Guide to Safe Scouting and don't go against any other rules, it doesn't hurt sometimes to have fun with fellow Scouts without completing a requirement.  We've had nights where all we do is play games (although this does meet requirements for most ranks), bowling (again, can probably be tied to some adventures), gone to video arcades (this one was just for fun as a reward for having a great popcorn sale).

 

One final thought, the reason why we have requirements is to carry out the purposes and methods of Cub Scouting.  It may help you to take a look at them when evaluating potential activities to determine whether they are appropriate for Cub Scouts:

http://www.scouting.org/scoutsource/CubScouts/Parents/About/pandm.aspx

 

also, don't forget the Guide to Safe Scouting:

http://www.scouting.org/scoutsource/HealthandSafety/GSS/toc.aspx

[TWCub]

At the beginning of the year, I asked my Webelos scouts which ones cared about rank advancement and which ones just wanted to have fun.  The ones that cared about rank advancement, I made sure we got through the rank advancement, tracked what they did, how they progressed, and made sure we had opportunities to get fun stuff in too.  The Webelos that just wanted to have fun, I didn't worry if they missed a meeting or didn't work on anything at home.  If it's not important to them, than it's not that important to me.

 

We had crossover at the beginning of the month; the ones that wanted the Arrow of Light found a way to get it all done.  The others didn't come to the ceremony because it wasn't important to them.  We had fun regardless.

[Stosh]

At the beginning of the year, I asked my Webelos scouts which ones cared about rank advancement and which ones just wanted to have fun.  The ones that cared about rank advancement, I made sure we got through the rank advancement, tracked what they did, how they progressed, and made sure we had opportunities to get fun stuff in too.  The Webelos that just wanted to have fun, I didn't worry if they missed a meeting or didn't work on anything at home.  If it's not important to them, than it's not that important to me.

 

We had crossover at the beginning of the month; the ones that wanted the Arrow of Light found a way to get it all done.  The others didn't come to the ceremony because it wasn't important to them.  We had fun regardless.

@@TWCub  Welcome to the forum.  I like your style, the quicker one gets decisions and choices into the hands of the boys, the quicker they grow up and mature.  You met their expectations, not their parents.  You may take flack for that, but in the long run your boys will appreciate it.