Patrol names - who picks them?

[blw2]

So my son's patrol recently met full strength.  He and one other joined the troop, and several other scouts came from a different pack later... and this was the 1st meeting since.  I wasn't in the meeting.

 

I found out the next day that the patrol flag and patches were on order, and this was a surprise since I figured he would have told me about it...he and I had talked several times about names and it was something he cared about

 

Long story, but turns out as a group they looked online at some choices.

One of the scouts, who i know well (he comes off a little bit bullyish sometimes for pushing his agenda through without consideration for his friends), found one he liked... and was strongly yelling to the rest...pick this one pick this one...

In the end 2 of the scouts didn't like it, in fact my son really strongly hates it. The other 4 voted for it.   In answer to their rejections, they were told.."Too late, majority rules!".  So there was an ASM involved in the conversation, and somehow it was decided ok then, well I guess that's the one...

I'm guessing the 4 who liked it were being loud, and the two that didn't were not and the ASM mistook the volume for unanimity.

I have to admit I saw this coming a long time ago, I know that boy.

 

Anyway....So on behalf of my son I was a little bit ticked off that he's going to have to wear something on his uniform he dislikes -  a bit ticked at the one strong willed scout .....and irritated at the ASM for not being more mediatory.  I'm also very disappointed in my son, that he was not more assertive in pushing for a consensus.... but I guess that's a hard thing to wrap your head around at 10...

It just seems like a bad start to forming good patrol spirit.

 

I'm not about to go interjecting myself in it as a helicopter parent...

 

But I just thought this story might lead to a discussion about patrol names, who picks them, what happens when they are really bad.... what are some good names you've seen, and bad ones?...and so on

[Fehler]

So what was the "bad" choice?

[Sentinel947]

Scouts pick them, we've never had an issue with appropriateness. We have had issues with scouts arguing over the name. It got so heated that the ASPL stepped in to mediate. The patrol couldn't achieve consensus on it, (or on anything else) so they decided it was better if they split into two patrols.

​My Troop is big, no big deal to have another patrol.. Small Troops, that may not be a viable solution to the issue. Your mileage may vary.

[Krampus]

Happened once in out unit years ago. The PLC made a decision that all patrol name changes will be done by unanimous consent. You'd be surprised how quickly boys can find common ground when EVERYONE has to like the name, patch, etc. This approach built patrol spirit, taught them to compromise. 

[resqman]

Lads pick the patrol name.  SM would veto if deemed somehow inappropriate or un-scoutlike.  Patrols are run by the boys.  They make poor choices and live with them.  That is part of scouting.  The patrol name only has to last as long as they want.  Next week they could vote to change again. 

 

Keep in mind this a good learning lesson for the boys who don't like the name.  Next time a patrol decision is to be made, they will likely be more vocal about what they want weather it is food choice for the campout or who shares a tent.

 

Had an adult enter a patrol room and tell the scouts to stop rocking back in their chairs.  The boys took it as a challenge.  Changed their patrol name to The Chairs.  While it may have made that adult mad, nothing about the name is inappropriate.  The Chairs kept the name for at least 3 years.  Only they knew why they choose the name.  No one else in the troop really cared. 

[Stosh]

Let me get this straight.

 

Once a group of guys pick a name they have to live with it forever.....check

 

If a boy goes to a different patrol he has to take the new name of the patrol....check

 

If the adult put together an ad hoc patrol for camporee they don't have a name anyway....check

 

Okay, works for me.

 

The only question for me is, why are the adults all that worried about it? This is elementary grade school playground politics here.  Get another cup of coffee.                    

 

I had a patrol that changed their name more often than their underwear.... Patrol patches can be switched out just as easily as rank patches or POR patches.

 

If anyone thinks my rantings are stupid, not to worry, losing sleep over patrol names ain't too smart either. 

[qwazse]

Back in my day, we just chose from several dozen standard issue names. I can't even remember how we settled on "Wolf" for the patrol I started. Goes to show how permanently scarring this kind of thing can be.

 

It does sound like the ASM inserted himself unnecessarily. But it could have been to settle the boys down as best he could.

 

On our troops, by reasons I cannot fathom, the patrol picks their name. We adults don't get involved.

 

Some years, it takes them so long to settle on a name, they have minimal enthusiasm for it.

 

One year, some boys didn't like the formality of roll call, (e.g. "Flaming Arrows, all present and accounted for, sir!") So they chose "Hey Chris" for their name.

 

Rejoice if it's something they can cheaply find a patch for.

 

If your son thinks this will be emblematic of how the patrol operates, then he'll start a new patrol soon enough.

[blw2]

Happened once in out unit years ago. The PLC made a decision that all patrol name changes will be done by unanimous consent. You'd be surprised how quickly boys can find common ground when EVERYONE has to like the name, patch, etc. This approach built patrol spirit, taught them to compromise. 

Exactly what I was thinking probably should be encouraged.... i agree that adults don't need to be involved so much....

....but IMO, we do need to make them aware that consensus is a real possibility, and can be a good thing...and that living the golden rule sometimes means asking the other person what they want.  It is "boy lead, not boy defined", after all! (quoting Clark Green @ scoutmastercg.com)

 

So what was the "bad" choice?

 

Cyber Duck

http://www.patchtown.com/cyberduckpatrolpatch684.aspx

wouldn't have been my pick either, but I don't think it's all that horrible

I pointed out to him that it could have been a whole lot worse

 

 

Lads pick the patrol name.  SM would veto if deemed somehow inappropriate or un-scoutlike.  Patrols are run by the boys.  They make poor choices and live with them.  That is part of scouting.  The patrol name only has to last as long as they want.  Next week they could vote to change again. 

 

Keep in mind this a good learning lesson for the boys who don't like the name.  Next time a patrol decision is to be made, they will likely be more vocal about what they want weather it is food choice for the campout or who shares a tent.

 

Had an adult enter a patrol room and tell the scouts to stop rocking back in their chairs.  The boys took it as a challenge.  Changed their patrol name to The Chairs.  While it may have made that adult mad, nothing about the name is inappropriate.  The Chairs kept the name for at least 3 years.  Only they knew why they choose the name.  No one else in the troop really cared. 

I also suggested to him that maybe the name can be changed down the road, I have no idea about troop rules on that, but it seems like it should be possible....

and we discussed that it's a lesson to be more assertive sometimes.

 

 

Back in my day, we just chose from several dozen standard issue names. I can't even remember how we settled on "Wolf" for the patrol I started. Goes to show how permanently scarring this kind of thing can be.

 

It does sound like the ASM inserted himself unnecessarily. But it could have been to settle the boys down as best he could.

 

On our troops, by reasons I cannot fathom, the patrol picks their name. We adults don't get involved.

 

Some years, it takes them so long to settle on a name, they have minimal enthusiasm for it.

 

One year, some boys didn't like the formality of roll call, (e.g. "Flaming Arrows, all present and accounted for, sir!") So they chose "Hey Chris" for their name.

 

Rejoice if it's something they can cheaply find a patch for.

 

If your son thinks this will be emblematic of how the patrol operates, then he'll start a new patrol soon enough.

 I remember it being the same way... just a small number of choices.  I wasn't even involved since when i joined I joined into an existing patrol... I can't even remember what it was.

And I think that points to the minimal enthusiasm you mention... which my only fear in this is that it could be a sour seed that affects my son's patrol spirit

 

oh, and I can't criticize the ASM on how he inserted himself or not.  i wasn't there and I don't know what he did.  It might have been his ipad or computer they were using and he was only there protecting his hardware.

 

 

 

In my thinking, they shouldn't be encouraged to change the name every month, because that could also lead to minimal enthusiasm for it.

... but it seems the better scenario might be that these original patrol members have consensus on the name, they are the plank owners of the patrol after all...

so they would likely want to keep the name for the duration.... except maybe if years down the road the patrol loses scouts and absorbs other new ones so that the patrol is no longer the same group... then it makes sense to change the name so that the new scouts feel connected to it too.

 

 

But I didn't really start this thread to insert myself into my son's situation

it was more about patrol names in general

as in the "Hey Chris" patrol

and the "Chair" patrol

 

 

Any other funny or bad names you have seen ?

[Krampus]

Exactly what I was thinking probably should be encouraged.... i agree that adults don't need to be involved so much....

....but IMO, we do need to make them aware that consensus is a real possibility, and can be a good thing...and that living the golden rule sometimes means asking the other person what they want.  It is "boy lead, not boy defined", after all! (quoting Clark Green @ scoutmastercg.com)

 

From a conflict resolution perspective, having unanimity teaches them something. Majority rules is a win-lose situation and undermines the who objective of the patrol method. Picking something no one likes (or having adults do it for you) is a lose-lose situation. Compelling the boys to find something everyone likes builds that win-win scenario.

 

Reminds me of that episode of The Office on conflict resolution.

[resqman]

Me thinks you are spending too much effort on this.  The boys pick a name de plum.  It is funny or weird or boring or stupid.  After a while they get bored with it and pick a new one.  Or they take on a fierce love and protection of the name.  Some relish in the fact that the name is meaningless. 

 

Lots of No Name patrols thru history.  There are blank patrol patches available.  There are patches that have the word NAME with the red circle and diagonal stripe across it.

 

Agree this is playground bickering.  Troop policy is you can only change patrol names once a year.  Just because of the cost.  Troop paid for the patrol patches.  I guess if the patrol was to pay for the patches directly, we would let them change more often.  Good sign of initiative. 

[KenD500]

The Scouts pick.

 

When we were 1 Patrol, they picked "Creepers" as they all played Minecraft.  1 Scout found a place that would custom make 5 and they ordered them.  $9/patch.

 

When we got big enough to have 2 Patrols they retired the Creepers.  I recommended they find patches that were cheaper.  They found the patches at the Scout Shop.  And became the "Merlin" Patrol (type of falcon) & the "Ghostly Goats".  Both patches were available at the Scout Shop.

[Stosh]

As long as the boys have a name, yell and flag, they don't need a patch.  It's nice, but not needed.

[Peregrinator]

You could just limit them to the traditional patrol names and colors:

http://fr.scoutwiki.org/Code_des_couleurs_de_patrouille

[andysmom]

Patrols pick the names once a year in the fall.

We don't have patches, our scouts pick strange names.  Hard to find a "Blurple" patch, for example.

This year our older scout patrol chose 3 different patrol names that were political in nature, they were told that the names were not appropriate.

[blw2]

so there's some weird ones out there, but nothing I would say too off the wall so far....

 

 

my story continues....

well, he got his patrol patch at the last meeting.  he still hates it.  I mean really hates it.

 

I'm not saying anything to him about it.... staying out of it for his sake..... but he brings it up to me after the meeting, and is asking questions.

 

He hates it so much so he was asking me was changing it allowed. (to most of his questions, I say I don't know you'll need to ask maybe your SPL or SM.... but added I suppose my GUESS is maybe, if you get all the others to agree and you'd prob have to pay for the new patches (and went on to talk something about sticking with it, giving it a chance, not flip-flopping names frequently.... or some such thing, I can't remember specifically....)

 

and then he asked.... can he change patrols

 

That last one is the one that concerns me the most.  If he has little to no patrol spirit, feels that he was verbally bullied with the "shut up, too late, majority rules"...that he got from his friend.... then he might not really feel part of the patrol, and might loose his energy for scouts.

 

i get the feeling that he'll get a negative feeling everytime he sees or puts on his shirt with that patch on it now.  I can sympathize with that....Not a good way to start with the troop.

So while resqman and others are correct... it's just playground bickering sillyness, things like this ARE a big deal for a young scout just starting with the troop full of energy and excitement.  They want to be part of something they can be proud of, not something they dislike.

I think really illustrates that things like this really need to be based on consensus.  Everything can't be of course, but some things certainly can.

 

BUT,

I wonder how it is with a new scout joining a troop as a single, who gets placed in way way or another in some patrol where he had no involvement in picking the name and patch.  Kinda different but kinda the same too... or the troops where patrol members are "assigned"...

 

Taking it to an extreme, how would any of you like being assigned to a patrol named... oh I don't know, something like the "daisy patrol" maybe, or the "pink pansy patrol" (or anything in strong opposition to something you like)?