Skirting the line as a BoR guest.

[qwazse]

Venturers have boundary issues ... so here's one that seems to be working now, but it wouldn't hurt to get some feedback from my favorite online scouters.

 

Last year our troop merged with another one, basically we transferred our boys' memberships to theirs. We left it up to the adults to do the same. I decided to let my registration lapse, and only keep my crew position on file downtown. So, it's only the green shirt these days ... and when asked I present myself as a guest at their meetings ... no big whoop. I'll still assist the new SM, patch notwithstanding.

 

If a kid wants me to teach him something his patrol is weak on, fine. I'm more than happy to be that creepy old guy drawing topo maps on the backs of little kids' knuckles. But, he has to demonstrate what he knows to the PL for a sign-off. That's helped these 2nd and 3rd years move a little further along.

 

So, since I'm not officially a member of the troop, I can be a guest on boards of reviews. That's been helpful because I think it's shown the MC's how to broaden the discussion and get a better idea of how the troop can serve these boys.

Some limitations I've set for myself:

• I won't sit on EBoRs.
• I wont sit on any BoR of a boy who is also a member of my crew.

Anyway, what do you think?

• Am I within "my rights" as an advisor ... advising scouts and parents who aren't officially in my unit?
• Or, does it sound like I'm dodging spirit of the GTA by trying to play a little ASM and a little MC without committing fully to either?

[CalicoPenn]

Good question - but in what context?

 

Are you talking about advising/helping Scouts on the requirements?  Other than any Troop-related requirements (within the GTA) I think your safe since every Troop should be using the same set of requirements as any other - where there might be difference, like who signs off, etc., then that's for someone from the Troop to deal with.

 

Are you talking about as a "guest" in a BOR?  You can certainly sit in as an observer for a Scout - but observers do just that - they observe - and should only step in if someone on the BOR is being abusive, and should only offer advice if asked by the members of the BOR.  Should you be a member of the BOR?  If the unit has more than 3 members of the committee, then it's skirting the GTA which says that a BOR is made up of 3 to 6 committee members but can use outside people if there are 3 or less members in the committee. 

 

If the unit is asking for your advice - go for it - but if you want to serve on BOR's, I would at least become a member of the committee.

[fred johnson]

CalicoPenn said it well.    

 

I don't see anything wrong with what you said ... but ... the real test is how the troop leaders feel.  If they are okay with it too, then fine.  If they are uncomfortable, respect their position and either step up or step away.  So, talk with the unit leaders.  

 

The only point I'd differ on is why not sit on EBORs.  BSA GTA section 8.0.3.0 "Particulars for the Eagle Rank" says ... "They need not be on an advancement committee or registered with the Boy Scouts of America, but they must have an understanding of the rank and the purpose and importance of the review. This holds true for Eagle boards of review held in any unit, whether troop, team, crew, or ship."  

 

As an experienced scouter and a venture crew leader, I'd think you'd be a good choice for an EBOR.

[Eagle94-A1]

I've sat on BORs of Scouts I've worked with via the OA when I was OA chapter advisor.  Long story short, we had some troops with weak committees. SM of the troops asked, and the district advancement chair said OK for BORs for these 4 troops. We had a "tough" panel: DE, DAC, me, and 2 SMs from another troop. Most were going for the T-2-1 requirements, but 2 were going for Star.

 

Why we did it? The troop committees were "weak," in that they were pretty much in name only. We were not going to penalize the Scouts, especially SCOUTREACH Scouts,

[qwazse]

The troop Is fine with whatever scouting stuff I do. But most parents have been only involved with this troop and only for three years. So, they aren't exactly the type to question much.

 

CP, 'round here, we don't gag our guests. They bring everything they have to offer to the table except signing the boy's book. Your point is well taken, however. The more I do of these, the less I expect to talk. I'm basically giving a template to move forward and improve upon. I'm not expecting to be on every board, as I'm hoping that other parents will be available most evenings.

 

Why not EBORs? Well, they already have the district rep as a guest. (See there? We even let guests in as moderators!) Also, I'm more directly involved with older scouts as their crew advisor or coaching them on leading the troop. So, I would rather be helping with Eagle SMCs.

[Krampus]

You can't be a little bit pregnant. I'd register and make it official. You have a lot to offer, why not just register and talk to the new unit as to what your role will be?

[SSScout]

""The Work Is Done By Whoever Shows Up"" is a Scout motto you won't find in any Wood Badge guide.

 

You adapt. You use the resources that are available to you.  If the TCCh is there to chair the BoR, but no other  Registered Committee Members,  so you  quickly INSTRUCT ("train" is such a harsh term)   some parents as to the purpose and expectations of the BoR and drag 'em in.  Shanghai comes to mind.  Most folks are only waiting to be asked, anyway.  Get them involved. 

 

Q:  You are present, you are experienced, your example in the BoR will only give inspiration to any newbies.   Teach a knot, demo it's use, help a Scout Patrol along the way  , same thing in the BoR.   Sign the papers and become "offishul".   The Troop will pay the registration fee, yes? 

[qwazse]

You can't be a little bit pregnant. I'd register and make it official. You have a lot to offer, why not just register and talk to the new unit as to what your role will be?

@@Krampus, I'm in venturing, we kinda know that.

 

Why? Loathing of paperwork -- mainly. And there's some pretty good dads in this troop. I don't want them crowded out.

 

The fact is, I'm kinda seeing the need to wean the troop from us "old guard." We basically nudge to give their boys longer leashes and increased outdoor activity -- putting some crazy ideas int PL's heads about neat places to hike and camp with just their 9 guys, helping the new SM filter any tripe spouted off at roundtable (e.g. "how we do it" lectures from MB-mill troops), and sharing policies regarding things like expenses and equipment. And we keep one eye on the scouts from our former troop making sure they aren't just an elitist clique.

 

In the past few years, a lot of things did not happen with our crew because I felt I owed a lot to the ASM. I think I have a tremendous lot offer high school students who've missed out on boy scouts -- both in my community and around council and the area. And those folks have gotten short shrift in the past couple of years.

[Krampus]

@@Krampus, I'm in venturing, we kinda know that.

 

Why? Loathing of paperwork -- mainly. And there's some pretty good dads in this troop. I don't want them crowded out.

 

The fact is, I'm kinda seeing the need to wean the troop from us "old guard." We basically nudge to give their boys longer leashes and increased outdoor activity -- putting some crazy ideas int PL's heads about neat places to hike and camp with just their 9 guys, helping the new SM filter any tripe spouted off at roundtable (e.g. "how we do it" lectures from MB-mill troops), and sharing policies regarding things like expenses and equipment. And we keep one eye on the scouts from our former troop making sure they aren't just an elitist clique.

 

In the past few years, a lot of things did not happen with our crew because I felt I owed a lot to the ASM. I think I have a tremendous lot offer high school students who've missed out on boy scouts -- both in my community and around council and the area. And those folks have gotten short shrift in the past couple of years.

 

Sounds like you need to register and become the sage old guy who sits quietly around the campfire but drops the "pearls of wisdom" for the boys to pick up. You can also offer the SM the advice of which battles to pick.

 

You've been around. You know how to manage kids and adults. You just need to make it official.

[qwazse]

@@Krampus, you want someone like me to "make it official." I'm wondering why? What value is it to the troop if a person is only registered as the advisor of a neighboring crew?

[Krampus]

@@Krampus, you want someone like me to "make it official." I'm wondering why? What value is it to the troop if a person is only registered as the advisor of a neighboring crew?

I may not fully understand your point. I understood you to say that you felt out of sorts because you were a leader but not really in an official capacity, is that right? 

 

You've got a lot to offer any group. I just figured "making it official" would take away any conundrum you've been presented with.

[qwazse]

.... The Troop will pay the registration fee, yes? 

Oh, that's funny!

 

In our old troop adults paid their own dues (enough to cover registration and some patches).

The new troop paid for adults, but they didn't have nearly as many on the roster as we were bringing into the merger. So, to keep them from draining their treasury, we used a good chunk of our remaining treasury (i.e. mostly this year's fundraising) to underwrite everyone's dues for this year.

 

In my case, I've paid for my registration on the crew's charter. (Actually, I still owe $ to the crew treasurer for that.) Didn't cost the crew anything. Several of the venturers were primary on the crew's roster. The new troop treasurer asked if I wanted a check for the money was transferred for their registration but not spent on it, and I replied "One more piece of paperwork for less than $100? Please don't make my life any more complicated than it is!"

 

I'm beginning to wonder if part of this is a parallel to the "burn out" topic.