What is the Committee's job?

[wendibyrd]

I have been on our Pack's committee for a while now and have worked with two Cubmasters prior to the one we have now.  Previously, the Cubmaster, Assistant CM(s) and Den Leaders primarily were "in charge" of planning the program year and implementing den meetings, pack meetings and other activites. They let the committee know what was needed, and the committee and parents supported them the best we could.  Primarily the committee focused on finances, recruiting new leaders, leader training and administrative tasks such as entering awards to scoutnet and online re-charter.

 

Our current CM has been in the position for 10 months.  It started out great, and since he was very inexperienced, the committee members tried to give him as much help as we could.  However, over the past 3 or 4 months, it has seemed like he really didn't want to be in the postion anymore.  He stopped following through on event plans and eventually stopped showing up at events other than regular den meetings.  At first he would call at least one other leader to say he couldn't make it, but over the past couple of months there have been 3 events at which he did not contact anyone, and simply never showed up.  This included the Blue and Gold Banquet and Pinewood derby this past month.  I am currently the committee chair and I have talked to him, the COR has talked to him, and he insisted that everything was just miscommunication, or last minute family issues.  Then this week he called our district key 3 to ask for a meeting.  

 

At this meeting he proceeded to tell the district key 3, COR and other leaders that his problem was with me "trying to take his job" and that he felt disrespected by myself and other committee members and that we were trying to push him out and take over the pack.  I was very surprised by this, as I had felt that all along myself and others were helping an inexperienced leader.  I apologized for anything that had happened to make him feel that way and, trying to find a balance, asked what he felt he needed from the committee.  At that point, our district chair interjected by telling me that "the Cubmaster's only job is to have fun with the boys.  Everything else is to be done by the committee and they are to assume primary responsibility for all events, activities and meetings."

 

That's not quite how it has worked at this Pack or any other that I know of.  Any thoughts on how best to balance responsibilities would be appreciated.

[Krampus]

I would think the role of the Pack Committee would be spelled out here with supporting detail here and here.
 
Not sure of Cubs have a document like this for Troop Committees, but if they do I suspect a few folks here will know where it is.

Edited March 1, 2016 by Krampus

[Torchwood]

Your District Chair is absolutely correct. The Pack Committee is supposed to plan the progam and make all the arrangements. The Cubmaster's job, and his only job, is to execute that plan. I have seen a Pack or two where the CM acts more like an emcee. He gets to have all the fun with the boys, while the Pack Committee does all the heavy lifting behind the scenes. Looks like it is time to get with the program (pun intended), and have a sit down with the CM over a cuppa joe and go over roles and responsibilities. I ws CM in a Pack without a well-functioning committee. I did most of the work, and it was NOT a great experience.

[Stosh]

First of all @@wendibyrd welcome to the forum.

 

With that being said, welcome to the politics of scouting, too. 

 

Remember no good deed goes unpunished.  It would be good to lay out the ground rules for everyone and then stick to them.  If the committee is to do the heavy lifting and the CM has all the fun, so be it.  Remember this is all for the boys, not the CM, not the Committe, not the DL's it's for the BOYS! 

 

If the committee is not trained, get someone in there and train them ASAP.  Then if the committee is to do all the heavy lifting, get organized, and the last thing for the event, make sure the CM know about it, when it is, where it is and RSVP if he can't make it,

 

Hopefully that will make the hassle, the perceptions, and problems go away.  Once corrected, move on and don't look back.  This is the new legacy for the pack.  Do it well so as to not just kick the can down the road.

[meschen]

You're District Chair is wrong. The issue you have is not with the Pack Committee's job description but with the Cubmaster's. See: http://www.scouting.org/scoutsource/CubScouts/Leaders/About/ThePack/cmast.aspxThe second duty listed (after being properly trained) is: " Plan and help carry out the Cub Scout program in the pack according to the policies of the BSA. This includes leading the monthly pack meeting, with the help of other leaders." I recognize that different packs operate in different ways, but your Cubmaster MUST be engaged.

 

IMHO, A Cubmaster who simply doesn't show up to either the Blue and Gold or the Pinewood Derby without any advance notice should be removed from his position.

Edited March 1, 2016 by meschen

[CalicoPenn]

Wendi,

 

Welcome to the forum.

 

Everything you mentioned in your first paragraph is EXACTLY how the Cub Scout Program Leaders (CM, DLs)/Committee responsibilities work.  Your Pack has been doing it right for at least 2 Cubmasters.  The Cubmaster and the Den Leaders should be meeting monthly to plan the program and to make sure the program plans are being followed - the BSA actually makes it pretty easy to do this by annually publishing a program plan for units to plug in and play that will lay out a theme for the year and a month by month guide of suggestions on how to do it.  At least once a year, preferably prior to the start of the school year, they should be going over the annual plan with the idea of adopting it, adapting it, or just making up their own plan.  The rest of the year's meetings are implementing the plan.

 

The Committee's responsibilities, which includes recruiting leaders and handling the administrative tasks, including finances and award tracking, are geared towards supporting the program plan.  Once the CM and his DLs plan the program, they proudly show it off to the Committee - not to get approval, but to figure out what kind of support is needed.  It may be budgetary, it may be logistics - but it is never about planning the program or running the program - the committee's job is to support the program.  If the Cubmaster and Den Leaders want to have a pack-wide campout in May, the committee helps with finding the camp site, making the travel arrangements, getting the permissions from the CO and Council - but they aren't responsible for planning the activities or the campfire. 

 

Your District Chair is, to put it bluntly, ignorant of how the program and committee sides of the unit relationships work.  I would just flat out ignore the District Chair at this point.  I would also flat out ignore anyone else who is part of the District Key-3.  Frankly, they have absolutely no business interjecting themselves in to internal Pack business, regardless of who invites them.  Then I would tell the COR that the Committee has decided that the Pack needs a new Cubmaster - one that will do the job required - the entire job - not just the Emcee having fun with the boys part - and that the Committee is starting to look for a new leader.  In the meantime, either an ACM will have to step up or the CC will have to take on the role of Emcee temporarily.  If the COR squawks, then the Committee simply needs to resign, en masse, from the committee then start demanding that the COR make sure that the Pack provides the program that they, as parents, expect the Pack to provide.

Edited March 1, 2016 by CalicoPenn

[blw2]

I more or less agree with calico penn, except to say that it seems to me The committee is sort of in charge of the CM and leaders, by way of hiring and firing.... and is responsible to review what the leaders on the program side are doing, advise and suggest, etc...

[Krampus]

You're District Chair is wrong. The issue you have is not with the Pack Committee's job description but with the Cubmaster's. See: http://www.scouting.org/scoutsource/CubScouts/Leaders/About/ThePack/cmast.aspxThe second duty listed (after being properly trained) is: " Plan and help carry out the Cub Scout program in the pack according to the policies of the BSA. This includes leading the monthly pack meeting, with the help of other leaders." I recognize that different packs operate in different ways, but your Cubmaster MUST be engaged.

 

IMHO, A Cubmaster who simply doesn't show up to either the Blue and Gold or the Pinewood Derby without any advance notice should be removed from his position.

 

Gotta agree with this. Getting your nose out of joint is one thing. Taking it out on the kids (by not attending these events) is another.

[qwazse]

Some guys just can't handle laundry lists ... the CC and COR need to boil it down as follows:

 

"YOU tell us how you are going to have fun with the boys.

WE tell you how we are going to support you in that.

 

If you don't show up at the designated time where we can make that all clear, then, yes, we will quickly move to find someone who do so."

 

Don't worry about eggshells. As a direct contact leader, I prefer a committee who can be blunt with me.

 

We had to make some big decisions last year, and adults who told us what stunk and what didn't saved us a lot of wasted hot air. Our new SM was taken aback by it -- especially me, but after he heard how we engaged the boys in meaningful dialogue, he apologized for misjudging me. Explained that he was sticking to his guns on some things, willing to learn on others. We moved on.

[miranthis]

The Committee runs the unit, handles the logistics, service and support functions, and is the day to day supervisory arm of the unit making sure that the program side meets the goals and aims of scouting, follows the Guide to Safe Scouting and all policies of the BSA, unit and chartering organization.  They recruit train, feed, and water the SM/CM and make recommendations to the IH and COR about the hire and fire side of things, especially the hire/fire of the SM/CM.  They answer to and report to the COR and IH.  The CM or SM runs the program side and reports to the committee, picks/nominates his ASM's and such and deals with the Boys.. ..Basically, the Committee sets the field and the SM makes sure the boys play in it.  They can play however they want, so long as they stay within the boundaries and rules.  In our troop each youth position has a corresponding position on the committee (QM has the Equipment chair, Advancement has the Scribe, OATR has the OA Adult Advisor, etc) that supports the position.  If the QM says we need X equipment, they snag the Equipment Chair and make the case.  The Equipment Chair gets approval for the $$ and makes it happen.  The SM/ASM's act as a guide for the boys to figure out who to make the case to, what to say an d how to follow up.  Sounds more complicated than it is.  But as long as everyone knows his/her role it works just fine.

 

Jeff in KC

[Beavah]

Yah, welcome @@wendibyrd!

 

Yeh gotta love district folks who make pronouncements, eh?

 

In real life, I reckon there are as many ways packs get organized and run as there are groups that run packs.   What yeh have to figure out is what works best for your pack.

 

Your CubMaster is givin' yeh feedback as a gift, eh?   He feels the way you're set up now devalues da Cubmaster role.   So if yeh want to keep him as Cubmaster, yeh need to take that to heart.   I agree with the group here, eh?  Generally speakin' in effective packs, the Cubmaster leads and the Committee supports, eh?   The committee should take the tasks he doesn't like or want to do, but let him play conductor.

 

Beavah

[fred johnson]

What does the pack do?  

 

Know the ideal as taught by BSA.  It's very good guidance. 

 

Reality is that the mix of people need to make the program work and make the program great for the scouts.  In that view, the actual assignments and responsibilities can bounce around.  Use the ideal as something to move toward and to recognize where you need to recruit more leaders and/or improve the job coverage. 

[fred johnson]

I just read the original post in detail.  There is the ideal of who does what and that is good for discussion and planning. 

 

But in the end, everyone needs to be able to agree, get along and work together.  IMHO this is the key job of the CC in association with the CM.  The CC (and CM) need to make sure everyone is getting along and working in the same direction.

 

There times when adults have "quirks" and/or "subvert" the group working together.  IMHO, this is when the CC and CM need to understand each other.  If it is the CM or CC, then it's a difficult to fix issue.  

 

I don't know your situation, but I'd ask.  Who's the CC?  What's your role?  

 

Sometime sit is most important to just smile and do your job the best you can and not think ill thoughts of anyone.  

[Stosh]

My committee is "trained" to do whatever it takes to help the boys run the best program possible. 

 

The get out and bust their butts lining up fund raisers, make sure notices are handled correctly, keep an eye on the advancement, and report any issues they find to the SM to help the boys fix.

[JosephMD]

My wife is the pack committee chair.  If you ask her, the committee's job is whatever she says the committee's job is, and the same goes for the other roles as well, but she is reasonable.  Basically, the committee sets the direction and plans the program at a high level, and the den leaders / cub master delivers the program and plans the finer details. 

 

The cub master, for example, his role is to plan and run the pack meeting, it is completely under his authority, whatever he wants to do, which is the expectation that has been set.  The committee has set the time and date for the pack meeting, and secured the meeting place should the cubmaster want to use that. 

 

Like many packs, hers doesn't have a fully functional stand alone committee, so den leaders, etc are often serving in committee roles as well, which does blur the line a bit.

 

On to your cubmaster:

Is this guy even trained, been to a pow wow or university of scouting?  Maybe he thought being a cubmaster put him in charge of everything, making all the decisions.  DE, district chair, none of this is in their realm, really, this is an internal pack thing.  those guys are not your bosses, they don't give you direction or have any control.  Internal pack problems looking for a district resource to help better understand the how to resolve it the scout way whould be looking toward their unit commissioner.  The District Chair and Executive should know this. 

 

Set the expectations for your leaders.  Training is required, not just the online stuff, which Is a great start, but there is so much more to the program, and many councils offer great training beyond the basics.

 

What national says cubmasters should do: http://www.scouting.org/filestore/pdf/510-237.pdf

  (not bad actually)