Now Arriving, the Return of the Lion

[Krampus]

I hope BSA has a plan on how to recruit parent volunteers for Lions and Tigers. It is hard enough to get a Tiger DL. Hopefully they have a program developed to get and train these parents to support this new effort.

[Stosh]

The easy solution to this whole idea is don't bother having a Tiger or Lion den if no volunteers step forward.  There's nothing in the program that says a Pack has to have dens for all ages. 

 

I'm sure that if there is a Pack that turns boys away because they don't have leadership it will catch the DE's $$ attention right away.

[Krampus]

The easy solution to this whole idea is don't bother having a Tiger or Lion den if no volunteers step forward.  There's nothing in the program that says a Pack has to have dens for all ages.  I'm sure that if there is a Pack that turns boys away because they don't have leadership it will catch the DE's $$ attention right away.

 

But @@Stosh, that's not reality. You have your recruiting night. Lions and Tigers show up and register. You then try to get a few of the parents to step up and run the dens. It is like pulling teeth. If you are lucky you get someone to do it. The Pack then needs to train them and help them set up their program for the Den for the year. 

 

My point is we all know -- and BSA knows -- that while this is not the optimal model, it is what most units do. Their (BSA) answer is for units to put their most experienced leader at the Lion and Tiger level, but that's unrealistic as most packs see their best leaders move on to Boy Scouts rather than stay as CS leaders.

 

IMHO, what BSA needs to do is:

• Develop a training program for new leaders (especially Tiger and Lion) that teaches child and adult management.
• Create a pre-planned calendar of den meetings, events, activities and games that runs from the beginning of the "scout year" to the end.
• Have the training noted in the first bullet demonstrate how to use the tools in the second bullet point.
• Provide a series of online tools and official Q&A resources for new leaders. Something that is not cryptic like my.scouting.org. Something easy, mobile and fun.

If they approach Lions the way they continue to approach the Tiger program, they've done nothing more than add to the problems of managing a CS program. Good luck getting the Millennial parents involved.

Edited February 26, 2016 by Krampus

[Stosh]

But @@Stosh, that's not reality. Reality?  Really?  Second best, slipshod ineffective is reality that BSA and the rest of us are willing to accept because "it works"?  Nothing is going to change unless someone makes it change.  Accepting this as the model is like accepting Adult-Led, Troop-Method programs as reality and there's nothing that can be done about it.  Sorry, but I think the boys deserve better.

 

You have your recruiting night. Lions and Tigers show up and register.

 

So far so good.

 

You then try to get a few of the parents to step up and run the dens.

 

At which time it is announced that DL's will be needed for the new boys and parents wishing to help out step forward and register.

 

It is like pulling teeth.

 

How do you figure?  Make the announcement and you're done.  If no one steps forward, the second announcement goes out.  With no Lions or Tiger DL's we will do our best (Cub Motto) to get your boys into a different pack in the neighborhood because we don't have the resources to handle it without willing DL volunteers.  THAT IS THE REALITY.

 

If you are lucky you get someone to do it.

 

So, then, it's acceptable to go with luck as the determining factor in the quality of the program leadership?  That will bode well for future burn-out of those who reluctantly stepped forward with only enough interest in the program to provide something for their own child.  Am I correct on that?

 

The Pack then needs to train them and help them set up their program for the Den for the year. 

 

Here are the dates for the training.... If you can't make it, don't worry it will be run again next year.  Be sure to get your on-line YPT so you will be "trained".  Who's the one in the pack that is responsible for helping them set up their program for the den?  Never heard of such a position.  Usually, "Here's the Lion, Tiger, Bear, Wolf or Webelos book, have at it." approach is what I have experienced.

 

My point is we all know -- and BSA knows -- that while this is not the optimal model, it is what most units do.

 

And my point is why do we always have to settle for such a terrible model and why is it everyone is having to suffer for it?  The way we have always done it is a pretty lousy excuse for continuing a god-awful way of doing business.

 

Their (BSA) answer is for units to put their most experienced leader at the Lion and Tiger level,

 

BSA can talk a good PR line for that, but we all know that those positions are going to be filled with parents of the new boys, not some experienced leader who's going to abandon his boy at a higher level to go back and work with kindergarten kids he/she doesn't even know.  Another reality check going on here.....

 

but that's unrealistic as most packs see their best leaders move on to Boy Scouts rather than stay as CS leaders.

 

Maybe some pack could get a WDL who has a boy crossing over and a boy that is just starting kindergarten.  There's wishful thinking for ya!

 

IMHO, what BSA needs to do is:

• Develop a training program for new leaders (especially Tiger and Lion) that teaches child and adult management.

Herding Cats 101 ?

• Create a pre-planned calendar of den meetings, events, activities and games that runs from the beginning of the "scout year" to the end.

More Paperwork 101  

• Have the training noted in the first bullet demonstrate how to use the tools in the second bullet point.

Connect the Dots 101

• Provide a series of online tools and official Q&A resources for new leaders. Something that is not cryptic like my.scouting.org. Something easy, mobile and fun.

Computer Basics 101

 

I can see it now, University of Scouting's first Doctorate of Lion Den Leadership, comes with a certificate and patch one can proudly wear on their right pocket. 

 

If they approach Lions the way they continue to approach the Tiger program, they've done nothing more than add to the problems of managing a CS program. Good luck getting the Millennial parents involved.

 

Thanks for letting me have a bit of fun, but as we all know the flawed system we had isn't going to get any better by adding more and more expectations on everyone involved.  I seriously can't see many mom's in a position to take on Lion DL positions.  If this is their first kid with others at home, the answer is going to be a NO before one asks.  Maybe a dad here or there might be able to step up depending on the work schedule he might have.  Maybe there's some foolish single mom out there that wants something nice for her son that she can't provide because of her situation.  It would be really stupid to ask that mom to step up and be a Lion DL.

 

BSA needs to think beyond the membership issue and the $$ revenue needed and start looking at providing quality improvements for the struggling programs already in place.  A temporary membership fix/boost at the Lion's level will only prove to the parents the program isn't what it was advertised in the first place.  People put their children into youth programs for others to maintain.  They themselves don't want to run the program, they are paying to have their child in the program.  It's like buying a season ticket to the ski hill or a membership in the YMCA.  My kid will learn to ski and swim, but I'm not the one teaching it, that's what I'm paying for.

 

You are on the right track with the needs out there to fix up the program.  I just don't see BSA doing anything to provide the expertise to get it done well.  They simply add a new age level, print new books, sell new materials, take on new members and then let the Packs and the Pack leadership figure out how to survive the influx of new boys. 

 

Maybe you and I ought to co-author a Lion Den Leaders' Survival Guide.  We could be next Gates or Jobs! NY Times best seller list at least!  That might be ridiculous pie-in-the-sky way of looking at this situation, but I'm thinking that if one were to take away the $$'s out from in front of their eyes, BSA might see the same thing.

[Krampus]

@@Stosh, I agree it would be easiest to say "Volunteer or we will have to find you another pack." Reality is that packs want to stay viable, districts want units to stay viable and national wants more scouts. One would think national would create an infrastructure to make the volunteer's lives easier.

 

We all know that will never happen.

[blw2]

I hear this word burn out thrown around all the time. I hear other leaders from other packs say that they are just baby sitters too. I hear a lot of things and I am "new" to scouting. I really feel like it is those parents who decide sports are more important than scouting and try and juggle scouting/basketball/baseball/football/swim/lacrosse/(anything else)...of course you will get burned out. I understand sports are important and everyone has their own opinion on what is important to them, but I really feel like making a kindergarten level rank will help, not hurt, the burn out. As someone said above, we can grab the child's interest before they get entrenched in a sport and make them want to be there. I have kids who are starting to get upset with their parents when they cannot be at the scout experience, because it is fun to them.  I get the repetitiveness of the program, but then again our leadership rotates as kids move on. Maybe our pack is doing something different by rotating the leadership as the kids leave, but we do what must be done. We have one den leader who has been a den leader the whole time. our Webelos den leader is our former CC and the Wolf/Tiger are new, then again we have three wolves. All of our leadership will be rotating out here in about a year or two because their kids are leaving Cub Scouts, I will be one of them. I may be new to being a scouter, but I am not new to repetitive actions day after day (military). I had one year of the old program with an old school scouter who was set in their ways and didn't "speak kid".  It was a lot of sitting and talking, not what any child, let alone boys want to do. My son was bored, I was bored, we lost a lot of scouts and adult leaders because they were bored. Maybe this is the "burn out" people speak of. I think this new program, with new leadership blood will make Cub Scouts great again. It will just take a transition that some adult leaders are not willing to do...

 

I've only recently left the pack, having served since about half way through my son't tiger year.... so roughly 4 years in

 

Burnout is real... for parents and scouts.  I even saw non-scouter parents burn out with it... the constant bringing of the scout to mtgs and events.

 

I think a lot very likely has to do with the unit, standing traditions, the current flock of parents and how much they participate, how much fun the den/pack leaders are... lots of local variables.

 

In our case, we had a very small number of us wearing a lot of hats.  and even many of the positive attitude den leaders only had so much time and energy to give

 

Honestly, I think a great tradition for a unit would be to establish rotating leadership roles

such as

den leaders only serve 1 or maybe 2 years.

Lean on Tiger and Wolf parents for small odd jobs, bringing snacks etc.. at first, then working up to chairing trips or events.

Assistant Cubmaster could come from a wolf den parent.  They have been with the pack a while now so they know the drill.

in preparation to take Cubmaster on their son's 1st year WEBELOS year.  

then the retiring cubmaster is around to help if needed for the partial 2nd year WEBELOS year... or maybe that person steps into the Committee chair role for their son's crossover year

anyway, something like that

defined and limited terms, not necessarily set in stone but as practiced guidelines

everyone has a job, everyone does something, and there's a support network around to help the newer ones come up through....

 

and honestly, if anyone asked me..... I would probably suggest against signing up their son for the Tiger year.... certainly not Lion!

the only exception might be tiger, if the pack had a perpetual tiger den leader - such as a retired school teacher, that had plenty of time, was great with little kids, etc... then they would prob be able to really make for a fun program, rather than some new parent trying to figure it out as they go...

[Stosh]

@@Krampus  Until national, councils, and districts actually SEE the problem, they have no initiative to fix anything.  The struggling get by processes that are making life miserable for the volunteer doesn't impact their situation until it hits their quota and $$ revenue stream. 

 

If the packs started putting the onus of the problem back on where it originates, national, the councils and districts will HAVE to do something about it.  Until then they have proven themselves willing to accept  the flawed status quo.

 

My DE already knows that at the present time I have only 2 boys for charter renewal coming up.  I have identified a few things that I plan on doing, but no guarantees the new troop will fold after only one year.  As a result of the "threat"/gauntlet I threw down, the DE has been making more contact with me than in the past 3 years.  They have provided what I needed for the AOL/multiple pack program the troop just started with 3 local packs.  They have a bin of resource material available with posters and banners to do a recruiting at schools, sporting goods stores, neighborhood activities and they have made arrangements with the middle schools to now expand their major recruiting processes in the middle schools to draw boys directly into Boy Scouts and not just Cub Scouts.

 

Why am I so effective?  I'm God's gift to Scouting?  Heck no, I just lay out the problem and put the onus on the people who can fix it.  My troop's collapse will reopen a major portion of the city to no Boy Scouting and any boy moving up in scouting from Cubs will need to look to other troops for their boy's programs, they might be 6-7 miles away and even in other towns, but that's the reality.  How is that any different than telling the Lion's and Tiger's they need to go to other packs because this pack doesn't have the resources to handle them?  No difference!  That is the problem and when push came to shove, I didn't budge and I got the DE's attention.  I'm not only having an affect on getting a major portion of the city covered with a Scout troop, I'm laying the groundwork for some major changes in how this district does it's recruiting.  Whereas a few troops might send out a call for resources such as equipment, personnel, etc. I don't.  But my DE does it for me.  She has already sent out notices that the new troop needs help and no one came forward, She has sent out notices that the new troop could use some used equipment from other units and no one came forward, etc.  While it isn't apparent that I'm not the only unit out there facing these problems, the DE is fully aware of the need and is doing over-time working on it.  I'm not the only one that is going to benefit from this extra effort on the part of the DE.  But if I hadn't dug my heels in and said, sorry, I will let three years of work go down the toilet unless I get a new way of doing things, things would not have changed.

 

So until I figure out the boys aren't worth it anymore, I refuse to accept the premise, "We all know that will never happen."  I have proven at least to myself that I don't have to accept that as the norm and infrastructure on the district level around here is changing for the good.

[Prepared]

I've only recently left the pack, having served since about half way through my son't tiger year.... so roughly 4 years in

 

Burnout is real... for parents and scouts.  I even saw non-scouter parents burn out with it... the constant bringing of the scout to mtgs and events.

 

I think a lot very likely has to do with the unit, standing traditions, the current flock of parents and how much they participate, how much fun the den/pack leaders are... lots of local variables.

 

In our case, we had a very small number of us wearing a lot of hats.  and even many of the positive attitude den leaders only had so much time and energy to give

 

Honestly, I think a great tradition for a unit would be to establish rotating leadership roles

such as

den leaders only serve 1 or maybe 2 years.

Lean on Tiger and Wolf parents for small odd jobs, bringing snacks etc.. at first, then working up to chairing trips or events.

Assistant Cubmaster could come from a wolf den parent.  They have been with the pack a while now so they know the drill.

in preparation to take Cubmaster on their son's 1st year WEBELOS year.  

then the retiring cubmaster is around to help if needed for the partial 2nd year WEBELOS year... or maybe that person steps into the Committee chair role for their son's crossover year

anyway, something like that

defined and limited terms, not necessarily set in stone but as practiced guidelines

everyone has a job, everyone does something, and there's a support network around to help the newer ones come up through....

 

We sort of had to do some of this because of people leaving because of past leadership. As I said before only one DL has been the leader for the whole time for the kids. It works for us, I have a large group of previous Boy Scouts/Eagle scout dads who jumped at the opportunity to lead their son's den. I will most likely become the Tiger Den leader when my youngest joins...in 5 years

 

and honestly, if anyone asked me..... I would probably suggest against signing up their son for the Tiger year.... certainly not Lion!

the only exception might be tiger, if the pack had a perpetual tiger den leader - such as a retired school teacher, that had plenty of time, was great with little kids, etc... then they would prob be able to really make for a fun program, rather than some new parent trying to figure it out as they go...

 

I do not see this as a viable option. If they start at wolf, then they are learning as they go. The best way for them to succeed throughout Cub Scouts is to practice. If they join as a Tiger, then by the time they become Webelos, they will be really ready to take the kids to the next level before Boy Scouts...

[Krampus]

@@Krampus  Until national, councils, and districts actually SEE the problem, they have no initiative to fix anything.  The struggling get by processes that are making life miserable for the volunteer doesn't impact their situation until it hits their quota and $$ revenue stream. 

 

 

@@Stosh, they see it. The problem is they don't know how to FIX it. 

[Stosh]

@@Krampus

 

Well, they had better get a team on it right away, this is the life-blood of the organization, they're going to hit the point-of-no-return and then there's only the wailing and gnashing of teeth to worry about.

 

Heck, my playing around is making more of a difference than the people at national.  Try ANYTHING, it's better than nothing!  Send out people to the councils to do listening of what is working and what is not.  Quit worrying about the stupid paperwork.  The only thing that stuff is going to be good for is the bonfire in the parking lot in Irving on the day the lock the doors.

[MattHiggins]

A kindergarten program is long overdue. We've seen a huge increase in all-day kindergarten since the early 2000s, and now that the majority of the country offers it, BSA has gotten a little behind its "competition." Traditionally, most youth programs start or target student-age kids. Sure, you can enroll your 3-year-old in dance or tumbling, but once school starts that's when the flyers start coming home. Kindergarden is the right time to introduce Scouting. Plus, the BSA was smart about it and kept it pretty low key. Lions will meet only twice a month--one den meeting and one outing type meeting.

 

As for burnout, it's not the number of years that do it. Youth burnout happens when a monotonous program is offered. It's an easy trap to fall in. In my opinion, every year has to be different--different outings, different games, different locations, etc. Plus, there has to be serious effort made to make certain the experience for a Webelos is different than what he remembers as a Tiger or Wolf. Adult burnout is real and often self induced. When you have it, have (or make) someone else take over. Take a break. Most of us don't because of ego, not because we can't get someone else to step in.

[Krampus]

 Take a break. Most of us don't because of ego, not because we can't get someone else to step in.

 

Hmmm, my experience differs. Most scouters I know burn out because they are always covering for others who won't step up. Most who do step up are ALSO those who always volunteer and hope by stepping in the first person won't burn out because we need them.

[Sentinel947]

Hmmm, my experience differs. Most scouters I know burn out because they are always covering for others who won't step up. Most who do step up are ALSO those who always volunteer and hope by stepping in the first person won't burn out because we need them.

Sounds like the old adage, 90% of the work is done by 10% of the group. 

[Krampus]

Sounds like the old adage, 90% of the work is done by 10% of the group. 

 

In my experience, yes. There's the corollary to that adage: "The person who replaces you will rarely put in the level of effort you did." 

 

When one decides to step aside you can't look back. It never does you any good. Walk away, let them run the show and focus on something new.

Edited February 29, 2016 by Krampus

[MattHiggins]

90% of the work being done by 10% is very much true. I'm sure we all experience it. It certainly is the leading cause of burnout.