Now Arriving, the Return of the Lion

[John-in-KC]

So much for Lions being the first half of your tenth year of age...

 

Read this, folks

 

"Lions, a new Boy Scouts of America pilot program for kindergarten boys, will begin in participating councils this fall."

[Eagledad]

I might be excited if they moved the Tigers into this program because that would reduce the workload on the rest of the pack. Sadly they kept the Pack program five years long, which is the main cause of burnout and drop outs. 

 

Barry

[Krampus]

[insert BSA noting their membership numbers 'increased' but not why]

[vumbi]

Somewhere I think I may still have my old Lion patch from Cub Scouts. But that was when Lion was the last 'rank' not the first. H'mm, I'll have to see if I have a photo from back then...naaaahhh,..better not.

[mashmaster]

I see the younger ones loving it, but they already burn out at Webelos level, will that speed up the burn out?

[scoutldr]

I read about this on these forums at least two years ago.  How is this a "new" program?  I, too am a proud holder of the Lion rank, circa 1965.

[perdidochas]

I see the younger ones loving it, but they already burn out at Webelos level, will that speed up the burn out?

 

IMHO, yes, or more importantly, it will burn out the leaders. I was a DL from Tiger Cub to Webelos 2nd year.  I was very close to burnt out in Webelos 2nd year.  I don't see this as a good thing. 

[Stosh]

This opportunity to add yet another year to the Cub program imposes on us a rather strange bed-fellow.  If Cub Scouts is supposed to be kept simple and made fun, why is everyone burning out?

 

I'm in my 3rd year of starting out a brand new Boy Scout troop, and have a discussion with the DE coming up next week about starting a second Venturing crew for the council.  I am operating currently a SM working as a WDL to assimilate 34 new boys into 3 different troops, hopefully getting a substantial part of them for my new troop. 

 

I've been at this scouter business now for over 35 years and haven't burned out.  What's going on that is "burning out" our people?  Address THAT issue and maybe adding the Lions won't be a big deal.  It shouldn't be viewed as a problem to figure out how to have more boys have fun.  So explain to me why it is.

[SSScout]

"" What's going on that is "burning out" our people?""  

   It 's not so much doing too much Scouting ,as too much everything else.  Folks have each their own level of complexity, the number of spinning plates one can keep spinning is an individual thing.   For instance, not everyone "gets" being a Den Leader, or should be one. 

I do see the new program as an answer to the success of the GSUSA's Daisy program. It will lead more kids to the benefits of Scouting.   As in all kids programs, it will depend on the in loco parentis involved.  Parents involved?  Good results.  Parents not involved, seeking kid sitting and "soccer " syndrome (drop off and come back),  not so good results.   

I coached my daughter's soccer team four seasons.  We worked our way up from no wins to being the league champs.  On the fifth season, I just couldn't fit it in to my work  and everything else schedule.  She told me it was the worst season she ever had, (age 15) and she dropped out of any more soccer.  Oh well. 

[Stosh]

If that be the justification, then I'm sure we'll burn out our youth as well and the problem will only get worse with the Webelos to Scouting transition.  By shifting the years earlier, that must mean the Webelos program is the one in jeopardy?  I don't see then where this new program will do anything but encourage abandoning parents leading to abandoning scouts.

[fred johnson]

Yeah, five+ years is too long.  IMHO, this could only be good if councils took Lions and Tigers and ran it as a city wide council staffed program.  

 

Cubs should be 2nd grade where they can play with knives, fire, cooking, etc.  Let the younger ones try soccer and then switch to Cub Scouts when they are more mature. 

 

#1  reason ... burn out ... people will drop out of scouting before trying the most useful and satisfactory program ... boy scouts

[Stosh]

Anyone here on the forum from Northern Star Council?  I think they have been doing a Lions testing since about 2008.  It would be good to get their perspective on this.

[JasonG172]

I call "Burn out" an excuse for Poor Programs!  Call it what you want and bury your head but if you have Scouts that are burned out then you might need to check your programs!

[fred johnson]

I call "Burn out" an excuse for Poor Programs!  Call it what you want and bury your head but if you have Scouts that are burned out then you might need to check your programs!

 

Absolutely.  But you only have so many leaders with only so much time.  When the leaders are in year three or four ... or for those with 3 or more boys ... year ten or year twelve ... I challenge any pack to not repeat a drastic amount.  

 

- Pack meetings themselves are repetitive.  A game.  A song.  Awards.  Some program element (varied).   ... I challenge you to attend 10+ years of cub scout meetings and not see them as anything but repetitive.

 

- Blue and gold ... pinewood derby ... pack camp outs ... It is by definition repetitive.  You can alternate ... pinewood derby becomes space regalia or sailing regatta.  Still pretty much same thing.  

Boy Scouts suffer from this when you offer them year four of the fall district camporee.  But boy scouts is easier to keep varied because it is much much less work for the adult leaders.

 

.... If I had my say ... Cub scouts begins in 2nd grade ... an age where the boys begin to develop social interaction with each other and some independence from the parents.

Edited February 25, 2016 by fred johnson

[Prepared]

I hear this word burn out thrown around all the time. I hear other leaders from other packs say that they are just baby sitters too. I hear a lot of things and I am "new" to scouting. I really feel like it is those parents who decide sports are more important than scouting and try and juggle scouting/basketball/baseball/football/swim/lacrosse/(anything else)...of course you will get burned out. I understand sports are important and everyone has their own opinion on what is important to them, but I really feel like making a kindergarten level rank will help, not hurt, the burn out. As someone said above, we can grab the child's interest before they get entrenched in a sport and make them want to be there. I have kids who are starting to get upset with their parents when they cannot be at the scout experience, because it is fun to them.  I get the repetitiveness of the program, but then again our leadership rotates as kids move on. Maybe our pack is doing something different by rotating the leadership as the kids leave, but we do what must be done. We have one den leader who has been a den leader the whole time. our Webelos den leader is our former CC and the Wolf/Tiger are new, then again we have three wolves. All of our leadership will be rotating out here in about a year or two because their kids are leaving Cub Scouts, I will be one of them. I may be new to being a scouter, but I am not new to repetitive actions day after day (military). I had one year of the old program with an old school scouter who was set in their ways and didn't "speak kid".  It was a lot of sitting and talking, not what any child, let alone boys want to do. My son was bored, I was bored, we lost a lot of scouts and adult leaders because they were bored. Maybe this is the "burn out" people speak of. I think this new program, with new leadership blood will make Cub Scouts great again. It will just take a transition that some adult leaders are not willing to do...