Should SM be asked to leave?

[zuzy]

HI there, I posted last week asking about son's Eagle Project, when SM should sign the book and also a few questions concerning bluecards and SM signing them.

 

Well, got another situation this week.  Son is freshly elect SPL, two weeks ago.  SM has NO contact whatsoever with him concerning how he wants son to proceeed with meetings or how to contact other scouts to remind them of meetings. He did contact son the day before his Eagle Scout project to let him know his leadership stinks because afterall, son did not include SM on an email to confirm dates and times for the project.

 

SM accused son of not having any communications with him at all other than to have the project approved back in October.  Impossible as son has given many talks about the project a meetings, had a sign up sheet and another meeting for instructions to scouts on what they would be doing.

 

NOW, yesterday morning SM texts son and demands a copy of his meeting plan for last night's meeting?  WHY did he not send him one and WHY did he not plan on using the old SPL's meeting plan that was already set up?  He asked numerous other questions as well, and son did not know the answers, BECAUSE SM has not sat down to talk with him yet about these things concerning the SPL leadership in this troop! SM once again told son he is showing VERY poor leadership so far.  The kid is 14.5 years old. He is 6'4", so he looks like a 17 year old, but he is just a freshman in highschool.

 

I give son alot of credit.  He took his plan in to the meeting, held his head high. On the plan, he saved 30 minutes for giving a recap on his Eagle Project that was done last weekend.  The Com Chair and The Adv Coor both told my husband he nailed it and did very well.  This is the FIRST meeting there was actually laughter in the troop house since son has been with this troop in 18 months ( he transferred because he needed a troop that met on Sunday evenings to accomodate his sports).

 

Husband also said that SM called the advance chair a naughy female name in a previous conversation and advance chair is a woman and felt baddly about it.

 

My question to you..................how long do they let this beast in power?  Can he just be asked not to show up anymore and someone else take over for him?  Hubby said it was clear the kids had fun last night and son had a spot on meeting, his very first planning by self (a little help from hubby).

 

What do you think?

[zuzy]

Forgot to add the piece de le resistance.   SM was available for sons Eagle project last week, but just did not feel like showing up, sat in his easy chair.  We could have used his braun.  Or at the very least dont you think he would like to see what one of his scouts was doing for a project.  the com chair and ASM were impressed with scope of project and project itself.

[Krampus]

This is an issue for your troop committee and the charter organization. They employ the SM and he serves at their leisure. If you are on the TC then you can bring up the issue.

 

From what you've said I'd have my son set up a meeting with the TC chair and discuss his interactions (or lack thereof) with the SM. BUT, I would do this AFTER he's done with his Eagle.

[qwazse]

First of all, congratulations to your son for making SPL. It's something that the boys trust him that much. Hope he enjoys his time.

 

Regarding the coaching, SM may lose points for style, but your Son hustled up and did the job. Your son should get in the habit of communicating frequently with the SM. Either touch base at the end of the meeting about the next week's plan or call/E-mail during the week.

Not gonna lie, it is really tough for a boy to fit that task in week-in and week-out on top of sports.

 

Like Krampus said, if this negative feedback is really bothering your son, he can bring it up with the CC.

 

As to him spouting off to other adults ... all I can say is the folks who I consider my true friends are the ones who talked to me when I said/did something hurtful or rude. It allowed me to apologize and make peace. Your husband is in a position to be the SM's true friend. The guy may not want one, but it sure sounds like he needs one.

 

Regarding being available for your son's project, SMs need couch time -- usually more than any scout really needs an SM at his project. It's a shame he couldn't fess up and say it. But let that one go.

 

Good SMs aren't just lying in a pumpkin patch ready to pick, so it's wrong-headed thinking that getting rid of one will automatically get you someone who might be better. This stuff (i.e. waiting for someone to mature into a well-seasoned leader of youth) is annoying, and the CC and COR should try to help the SM improve his style. If it's time for a new leader, it's on them to decide.

 

But from what I've experienced it would take a broader pattern of disrespect for any committee to want to make a change.

[Sentinel947]

I'll echo what Krampus and qwazse said. Its up to the Troop committee. If somebody has issues with the Scoutmaster, they need to talk to the CC about it. 

 

It's impossible to say what the Troop should do, with only half the story, so forgive us if we don't endorse a particular course of action here. 

As with removing a SM, the transition needs to be planned out well, and expect to lose that SM and his kids if the Troop removes him by force. 

Not something I'd want to do unless the Scoutmaster's conduct is clearly out of line. That's for your CC and Institutional Head to decide. 

[SSScout]

Your Scoutson is learning early a valuable lesson:  how to get along with a boss.   Some bosses are all over being good for their people, some blame all problems on the worker, some let the worker get all the credit for good things happening, some have a problem when things aren't EXACTLY as they think things should be.

 

My advice for Scoutson:  

1) Make sure he smiles and thanks (!) the SM for all his advice and suggestions (No Matter What), and anything the SM says to him is a suggestion.   "A Scout Is Courteous"  This will either greatly please the SM or bug him to pieces.

2) Make sure SM, and CCh, and AdCh and (?) are included in any communications. 

3)  If he talks to SM after the Tmeeting, make sure it is within eyeshot of another adult (Child Protection! SM will understand...). Sounds like the SM is a micromanager, and has a hard time admitting when he forgets something.   SPL should be forgiving, but keep on with his successful  Tmeeting plans.

4 )   SPL should enlist his (HIS!)  PLC in all his planning and include the SM in the meeting and results/decisions . "Is this alright Mr. SM?  We decided to A and not B.  Okay?"

5)   Give your Scoutson several grains of salt  (with which to take things), He will need them.  

6)   Then back off, and let Scoutson come to you for advice. Try not to give it him before he asks.... 

[MattR]

What does your son think of the situation? If it's bothering you more than him, then stop letting it bother you. Talk to him. If he's upset then give him moral support. That might be all he needs. Encourage him to seek out feedback from the scouts. If, as you say, they like him, then that will also be plenty of moral support.

 

However, your son being so young, the SM being grumpy. I don't know. Digging a bit to find out what the cause is might help a lot. It might be that the SM is upset because he feels someone is taking his power. I don't know what the dynamics were before your son became SPL. Does the SM just complain about everyone, or was the SM just running everything? Understanding where it was and whether your son has made some huge change might explain what's going on. It could be the SM is a reasonable guy but just hasn't gotten used to how your son is doing things.

 

Final bit: I had a parent send out email to everyone in my troop demanding I step down, I was getting old, time for new blood, etc. That blew up in his face like he didn't realize. As everyone else has said talk to the committee. Change is always hard and demanding it, no matter how good it might be, might not go the way you think.

[zuzy]

Ahhhh, where does one begin??  Son and hubby joined this troop not last October but the one before because thre are not many Sunday troops in the area.  This one met on Sundays and seemed  "seemed" nice.  Son was here for 4 months before they went camping in a cabin for elcectronics weekend.  They then did not go camping until May again and then for summer camp in July.  They said they camped to son when he joined, but they really don't. the scouts do not do anything for themleves, all adult lead.

 

SM takes completed blue cards and does not return them, he looses most of them and then just writes up new ones for those making Eagle.  They do not have registered MBC, they are just signing what ever they want.  They have had like 3 meetings in the past three months.  When the former SPL did not have a plan for the meeting, they just called off the meeting.  Football game on, well, cancel meeting.

 

SM sits on his lap top entire troop meetings when they do meet.  He never went over any info with my son when he was elected SPL two weeks ago and "forgot" that he was new to the poisiton and reamed my son a new one through texting.  Texting should not be allowed.  SM wanted his son to be SPL, but the rest of the trooop knew that his son will not go camping or anything and that My son was going to take them camping and teach them what he learned in his other troop and NYLT.

 

Hubby is a Unit Commissioner and hneeds to clean this troop up.  Just wanted your opinions on what can be done.  I do understand you are only hearing one side of the story.  But, this guy is not a scouter, he is burnt out and he "gives" the scouts their merit badges and only one day out of the year.  They have never even had a court of honor for the past three years until this past January.  Hubby made them at their electronic weekend.  And even then, hubby said SM did not wear class "A"s.

 

Not a a good scout environment for these scouts in my opinion.  I was just wondering how it happens to have a SM removed.  Maybe hubby will have to be SM until they have someone else to take over?

 

I am hopin son can help this troop to actually enjoy scouting.  I have talked with him and told him it is like a new presidency, the cabinet has to get used to the prez and vice versa, but then BLAMMO, he got nailed by the SM.  The look on son's face was like "why bother", he is just going to steam roll me any way.  I encouraged him to go into the meeting up lifted with his wonderful report of his Eagle Project and I guess he Aced it.  The kids loved the pix and videos along with his meeting plan.

 

Have to just keep him focused and keep him positive with Sm

[Krampus]

Well there's a whole lot wrong with this scenario.

 

First thing I would put an end to as a parent: Don't text my kid UNLESS you text my wife or me too. That's a violation of no 1 on 1 contact. I always copy parents on text msgs or emails. Phone calls I always do on speaker phone with another adult in the room.

[Stosh]

If the SPL is supposed to be "running the troop", why isn't he the one talking with the CC and COR?  We're not talking about some young scout who's lost his necker and the SPL wouldn't help him find it, we're talking about an Eagle candidate who needs to step up his game and show a bit more leadership than just on his petty little Eagle project.  That project is supposed to be able to translate leadership into the real world out there.  What we have is leadership just enough to get by on the project.  If one is going to run with the big dogs, one had better learn how the pecking order works.  SSScouter seemed to allude to this quite nicely.

 

Maybe SPL is 6'+ and looks like a 17 year old, if he doesn't  have the fortitude to figure out this as being more than just wearing a patch or having a lesson plan written down, then he needs to find a more comfortable POR. 

 

I don't run a troop where SPL is top dog, but I would think that if one is serious about it the SPL would then probably need to be operating like a SM.  If not, who IS running the show?  It ain't the boys if my guess is correct. So then the SM just might be correct, the SPL Eagle candidate isn't showing much leadership.  Sitting around for two weeks waiting for SM directive isn't leadership.  If the SM sits around with his nose in his laptop during meetings, obviously he's not getting in the way of youth leadership. 

 

I run a PL controlled troop, so if the SM isn't showing leadership, the SPL is waiting around for some directive from the no-show SM, then the PL's had better step up their game!  As ASM I would be working the patrol method and at the very minimum get the PL's to start earning their POR with their patrols.

 

If it were my son who was the Eagle candidate SPL, I would have a bit of a talk with him about stepping up his game and start leading the troop as he has been elected to do.  If he isn't doing it right, he won't have to sit around very long waiting for the SM to say something. 

[Krampus]

ROFL...if he were my son I'd encourage him to plan monthly camp outs and send the activity plan to the SM to implement.

 

That would get him off his Lazy-Boy. 

[CalicoPenn]

What jumped out at me was that the SM said something offensive to the Advancement Chair and that she feels badly about it - I'm surprised that she is still the Advancement Chair and hasn't made it clear that his conduct towards her is beyond the pale.

 

Should this SM be removed?  I'm not going to play the "we need both sides of the story" game here - normally I would agree but I will say, without one doubt, that he's got to go. 

[Stosh]

Maybe some of our non-US brethren can fill us in with some insight on how this guilty until proven innocent thingy works.  I'm not quite sure it applies here in the US.

[Peregrinator]

Maybe some of our non-US brethren can fill us in with some insight on how this guilty until proven innocent thingy works.  I'm not quite sure it applies here in the US.

Certainly it can apply when we're talking about volunteer employment or membership in a private organization.

[Krampus]

What jumped out at me was that the SM said something offensive to the Advancement Chair and that she feels badly about it - I'm surprised that she is still the Advancement Chair and hasn't made it clear that his conduct towards her is beyond the pale.

 

Should this SM be removed?  I'm not going to play the "we need both sides of the story" game here - normally I would agree but I will say, without one doubt, that he's got to go. 

 

Gotta agree (what's that, two times for us? )

 

Rude behavior towards the kids is enough. Rude (perhaps lewd) comments about a female member? Nope, if I were TC we'd be having his meeting tonight. Unacceptable.