Archdiocese of St Louis Concerned about values of GSUSA and BSA

[Stosh]

After I was "early retired" from my company, I was required to apply for employment as a condition for unemployment benefits.  The program director position for the local GS/USA was open for the entire time I was applying for unemployment, every week the position was posted in the paper and online and every week I sent a resume and cover letter indicating interest in the position and my scouting background..... never even got a courtesy call back from them that whole time. 

[Merlyn_LeRoy]

Nope. This is pervasive across GSUSA. This is not local. This is local, region and across the country. It is a bigoted reaction based on fear. 

 

If this were a racial or gay issue it would be in the press all the time. Because it happens to heterosexual men (mostly white by the demographics) it does not make for money-making press.

 

 

It isn't official policy.  And spare me your crocodile tears.

[Krampus]

I don't get the same treatment coaching my daughter's soccer team. It may be somewhat pervasive, but the classic institutions should know better.

[Krampus]

It isn't official policy.  And spare me your crocodile tears.

And that makes it right? Please. Love the situational ethics.

[scoutldr]

That's blatantly illegal if that's actual hiring policy. Would violate Title VII of the Civil Rights Act of 1964.

It's also illegal to be "illegal" and to hire "illegals". So what's your point?

[Eagledad]

As was said, the organization has been heavily influenced for a long time by a political activism organization that is pro female and anti male. The policy is not in writing nor discussed much, but is generally understood. And originally it wasn't really a fear of abuse, but more of over emphasis of influential female role modeling for the girls that has gone out of control. I learned this through a friend who was the equivalent of our Council Executive.

 

On the plus side (at least for some of us), the Girl Scouts organization will never agree to merge with the BSA or flex it's activism muscle at the BSA so long as the BSA stays away from adding girl members. Does anybody recall the Girls Scouts piling on the BSA during the gay controversy? Not much. 

 

To be fair, my personal experience is the Girl Scouts are accepting of limited male volunteerism at district and council level. They seem to frown on it more at the Troop level.

 

It's a bit ironic that the BSA program lost some of it's outdoor influence by adding female Troop leaders, but the Girl Scouts are missing out on adding outdoor influence by limiting the male involvement. Crazy world.

 

Barry 

[Sentinel947]

It's also illegal to be "illegal" and to hire "illegals". So what's your point?

​I'm not sure I see the connection between Title VII and Illegal Immigration. Perhaps you can fill me in?

[Krampus]

​I'm not sure I see the connection between Title VII and Illegal Immigration. Perhaps you can fill me in?

 

It is against the law to discriminate against (people here legally) of any race, religion, sex etc.

 

It is against the law to hire illegal aliens.

 

Both are done all the time. That's the link.

[scoutldr]

@Sentinel: The tie in is that in today's world, the rule of law seems to be interpreted as "suggestions" and not enforced unless it meets someone's political agenda. Don't like a law? Just form sanctuary cities and look the other way. Don't want to hire men as nurses? Just ignore it and dare anyone to challenge it. The parents will support you.

[Merlyn_LeRoy]

And that makes it right? Please. Love the situational ethics.

 

This isn't situational ethics, it's the difference between what official policy is and what happens in your neck of the woods.

[Krampus]

This isn't situational ethics, it's the difference between what official policy is and what happens in your neck of the woods.

 

Wrong again.

 

GSUSA openly discriminates against heterosexual men in their practices. That's wrong, and likely illegal. Yet they have all sorts of policies and practices to allow gay and transgender people in to their ranks. So I have a better chance of being a cross-dressing man trying to get a sex change and being at my daughter's camp than I do being myself. That's discrimination.

 

The reason it is situational ethics on YOUR part is that you are defending GSUSA but vilifying BSA for their previous stance on gays.

[Sentinel947]

@Sentinel: The tie in is that in today's world, the rule of law seems to be interpreted as "suggestions" and not enforced unless it meets someone's political agenda. Don't like a law? Just form sanctuary cities and look the other way. Don't want to hire men as nurses? Just ignore it and dare anyone to challenge it. The parents will support you.

 

I wrote a reply. The forum ate it up.

 

​I don't agree with your assessment. Look up EEOC vs Lawry's Restaurants. A recent example of the government protecting men from sex discrimination. If these schools actually have a no male nurses policy, then there's a legal gold mine just sitting there.

[Eagle94-A1]

It's a bit ironic that the BSA program lost some of it's outdoor influence by adding female Troop leaders, but the Girl Scouts are missing out on adding outdoor influence by limiting the male involvement. Crazy world.

 

Now that you mention it, I think you may be right. The decline in outdoor emphasis, as well as the rule making prohibiting traditional Scoutcraft activities like pioneering towers and bridges, does indeed correspond to changes in the BSA's policy regarding female leaders.

[Eagledad]

Now that you mention it, I think you may be right. The decline in outdoor emphasis, as well as the rule making prohibiting traditional Scoutcraft activities like pioneering towers and bridges, does indeed correspond to changes in the BSA's policy regarding female leaders.

Training as well. 21Century, IOLS and most other courses were a result of the female leader policy change. But it had little to do with their gender, bringing females into the program more than doubled the membership without a youth scouting experience and very limited outdoors experience. The training had to change to fit the needs of the demographic membership coming into the program.

 

Remember the tradition of holding Cubs up-side-down to pin their Bobcat badge on their shirt? That was one of the early casualties of the softer gentler scout program. I remember the female leaders on the forum in the mid 90s were passionate about that ceremony going away. G2SS calls it hazing, which was ridiculous.

 

Barry

[Merlyn_LeRoy]

Wrong again.

 

GSUSA openly discriminates against heterosexual men in their practices. That's wrong, and likely illegal. Yet they have all sorts of policies and practices to allow gay and transgender people in to their ranks. So I have a better chance of being a cross-dressing man trying to get a sex change and being at my daughter's camp than I do being myself. That's discrimination.

 

The reason it is situational ethics on YOUR part is that you are defending GSUSA but vilifying BSA for their previous stance on gays.

 

SOME might discriminate in practice, but that isn't official policy, and if you think it's likely illegal, file a lawsuit.  I think the courts would say the GSUSA, like the BSA, is a private club and that they can discriminate any way they like.

 

I'm defending the GSUSA's official policy and vilifying the BSA's official policy.  I have no problem when units ignored official policy (and when they continue to ignore it now and admit atheists).

 

You, on the other hand, are vilifying the GSUSA as if that's their official policy.  It isn't.

 

By the way, if you really think it's illegal, why don't you file a lawsuit?