Archdiocese of St Louis Concerned about values of GSUSA and BSA

[CalicoPenn]

That's not Amnesty International's only political position, in fact after years of not taking a position on abortion (I'm sure the Catholic Church's opposition to abortion is not news), it changed its position in 2007.

 

In addition, in 2014 AI started making moves toward supporting the decriminalization of prostitution.

 

So there are two things that Amnesty International supports but to which the Catholic Church would be opposed.

 

Hope this helps.

 

Oh - no doubt that they do have other political positions - but that's really beyond the point. How many people knew the Boy Scouts had a policy prohibiting gay scouts and leaders until it became an issue in the media?  Heck - we had a lot of Scouters and people with boys in the BSA that had no idea.  Now think about all of those people who then learned that the BSA had a policy against gays from the media - how many of them knew anything else about the Boy Scouts?  Maybe they had a stereotypical view of a Scout helping a little old lady to cross the street (but more likely these days, help a little old man fly his house around with the help of balloons).  I seem to remember a lot of lamenting within Scouting, both in this forum and in person, about how much people didn't know anything about the Boy Scouts except for the policy.

 

We pay attention to what we read, what we consume in the media - and unfortunately we rarely take interest to go beyond what we read and hear in the media.  When the US media does mention Amnesty International, it is almost always in the context of their opposition to the death penalty and in their defense of dissidents.  No one ever reports on their position on contraceptives, abortion, prostitution, women's rights, men's rights - of any thing else they take a position on.  So when an Archbishop of the Catholic Church singles out Amnesty International as being part of the problem with the Girl Scouts, without mentioning exactly why they are problematic, no one should be surprised if the first, and likely only, reaction is that the Catholic Church is supporting the execution of dissidents and is pro-death penalty.

[Krampus]

We pay attention to what we read, what we consume in the media - and unfortunately we rarely take interest to go beyond what we read and hear in the media.  When the US media does mention Amnesty International, it is almost always in the context of their opposition to the death penalty and in their defense of dissidents.  No one ever reports on their position on contraceptives, abortion, prostitution, women's rights, men's rights - of any thing else they take a position on.  So when an Archbishop of the Catholic Church singles out Amnesty International as being part of the problem with the Girl Scouts, without mentioning exactly why they are problematic, no one should be surprised if the first, and likely only, reaction is that the Catholic Church is supporting the execution of dissidents and is pro-death penalty.

 

I hope you are wrong at how stupid we assume people are. Using that example above then we can assume most people think the Obama administration supports the repressive stance by the Iranian government with regard to human rights simply by the fact our administration is negotiating with them.

[CalicoPenn]

Have you noticed who the GOP front runner is?

[TAHAWK]

Have you noticed who the GOP front runner is?

Yes.  Heading for a presidential election with no candidate I can vote for.  Again.

 

We should have an option of "None of the above."  

 

 

Girl Scouts.

http://www.girlscouts.org/content/dam/girlscouts-gsusa/forms-and-documents/about-girl-scouts/facts/2014_audited_financial_statements.pdf

 

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/girl-scouts-face-financial-troubles-declining-membership-article-1.1381945

Edited March 2, 2016 by TAHAWK

[Merlyn_LeRoy]

We should be shocked that you could find a few hundred liberals to open check books for a cause?

 

I'd be more shocked if they had supported a father's right to volunteer and be treated like he's a decent human being, rather than assuming he's a degenerate.

 

I didn't "find" them, and your red herring is ridiculous, particularly since you haven't bothered to condemn the archbishop's shielding of actual, known degenerates.

[Eagledad]

I am not a big fan of the Girl Scouts organization because they have been used by political activist with an agenda for over 30 years; their program has suffered as a result. But as a scouter, I am glad they are earning a lot of money for the girls. I just about bought out a little girl who come to our door the other day. Her mom got out of her car to meet me just to make sure my large purchase was legit. The sad part is that since we are on a diet, I gave all the cookies away. Note to self: Kids want more Thin Mints.

 

That being said, I agree with Calico that church leaders need to describe better why the church shouldn't follow specific organizations. However, I'm not sure he may agree as much with me. Church leaders need to be more bold and aggressive in describing why organizations don't fit in Gods plan of moral living so their followers learn what makes them different as Christians. The average Christian today is clueless of the moral habits God demands of them. They are part of the cause for the decline of family values and the youth are suffering as a result. Christians today are ignorant to the point of thinking there are no immoral acts or consequences of sin. What good is it to follow a God and ignore why they are followers in the first place.

 

Note to self: need to hide a box of the Caramel delights next year.

 

Barry

[Krampus]

I didn't "find" them, and your red herring is ridiculous, particularly since you haven't bothered to condemn the archbishop's shielding of actual, known degenerates.

 

You create arguments out of nothing. GSUSA is the topic, not my condemnation of the archbishop.

[Peregrinator]

So when an Archbishop of the Catholic Church singles out Amnesty International as being part of the problem with the Girl Scouts, without mentioning exactly why they are problematic, no one should be surprised if the first, and likely only, reaction is that the Catholic Church is supporting the execution of dissidents and is pro-death penalty.

Thus far the only such reaction I've seen is yours.

[Merlyn_LeRoy]

You create arguments out of nothing. GSUSA is the topic, not my condemnation of the archbishop.

 

You brought up "degenerates", as if that was pertinent.

[Krampus]

You brought up "degenerates", as if that was pertinent.

 

Not going to get it to it with you. My comments stand. GSUSA are hypocrites for embracing one set of people while essentially vilifying heterosexual fathers for wanting to volunteer and camp with their daughters. It's ironic that we are not allowed to assume gay BSA leaders will have sex with boys, but we can assume the heterosexual fathers will have sex with the friends of their teenage daughters.

 

Double standard? Yup! 

Edited March 2, 2016 by Krampus

[Stosh]

The biggest anti-hypocritical people are often the biggest hypocrites  Kinda like the diversity people being racist.  Happens all the time.

[Merlyn_LeRoy]

Not going to get it to it with you. My comments stand. GSUSA are hypocrites for embracing one set of people while essentially vilifying heterosexual fathers for wanting to volunteer and camp with their daughters. It's ironic that we are not allowed to assume gay BSA leaders will have sex with boys, but we can assume the heterosexual fathers will have sex with the friends of their teenage daughters.

 

Double standard? Yup! 

 

 

 

That isn't a matter of official GSUSA policy, you have a local complaint.  Just like local units can exclude gays.

[Krampus]

That isn't a matter of official GSUSA policy, you have a local complaint.  Just like local units can exclude gays.

 

Nope. This is pervasive across GSUSA. This is not local. This is local, region and across the country. It is a bigoted reaction based on fear. 

 

If this were a racial or gay issue it would be in the press all the time. Because it happens to heterosexual men (mostly white by the demographics) it does not make for money-making press.

[Rick_in_CA]

Not going to get it to it with you. My comments stand. GSUSA are hypocrites for embracing one set of people while essentially vilifying heterosexual fathers for wanting to volunteer and camp with their daughters. It's ironic that we are not allowed to assume gay BSA leaders will have sex with boys, but we can assume the heterosexual fathers will have sex with the friends of their teenage daughters.

 

Double standard? Yup!

The sad part is that isn't unique to the GSUSA, as @@scoutldr pointed out. It is a common theme in our society: all females are potential victims, and all males are potential perpetrators. You see it in schools, airlines (unaccompanied minors are seated next to women or families - for "safety reasons"), college campuses, locker rooms, etc. The list goes on. Put a lone male on a park bench with children around and see how long it takes before the police arrive to "investigate a suspicious person". It's basically a crime for an adult male to talk to child that isn't his.

 

Try this for an exercise in paranoia: park a white cargo van at a park where kids are playing. Time how long it is before parents start to flee and/or the cops arrive. Or even better, pickup you child from the park while driving a white cargo van (actually don't, it could become a big thing).

 

I have met local fathers that do volunteer with their daughter's GSUSA troops, but I have also met ones that got the cold shoulder when they tried. I agree it would be nice if the GSUSA would stand up against the "all men are perpetrators" meme (which is a subset of the "our children are in constant danger" meme), and they are being hypocritical when they don't. But it's not really specifically a GSUSA problem, but a society wide problem.

Edited March 2, 2016 by Rick_in_CA

[desertrat77]

I have met local fathers that do volunteer with their daughter's GSUSA troops, but I have also met ones that got the cold shoulder when they tried. I agree it would be nice if the GSUSA would stand up against the "all men are perpetrators" meme, and they are being hypocritical when they don't. But it's not really specifically a GSUSA problem, but a society wide problem.

 

That's the truth.

 

When I served as the co-leader for my daughter's Brownie troop, it was an interesting year.   Working with the kids was great.   The adults (troop and council)?   Whew.   Some were friendly and seemed glad I was around.   The rest?   Attitudes ranged from openly hostile, to resentful, to suspicious.  

 

I have thick skin, but after that year I said "never again."