Ranman328 Posted February 17, 2016 Share Posted February 17, 2016 The other day I was going over pictures from our Pack Facebook Page. I am putting together a timeline of photos for the upcoming Arrow of Light Ceremony of the Webelos from when they started as Tigers until now. I noticed a group of photos of the current webelos II as Webelos I using axes and chopping wood at either a Boy Scout Campout or a Boy Scout Meeting visit. Should I have these photos taken down as it appears to violate the guide to safe scouting for using tools. Our Facebook page is open to District and Council leaders and I don't want anyone in trouble over it. Am I incorrect in my thinking? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stosh Posted February 17, 2016 Share Posted February 17, 2016 I wouldn't have pictures of other people's children on a FB page in the first place, regardless of what they are doing. Maybe a picture where none of their faces show might be okay, but I don't think it's worth the risk. I have a ton of pictures of the boys on their outings, just none of them on the internet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blw2 Posted February 17, 2016 Share Posted February 17, 2016 yeah, but think about it.....they've been putting pictures of kids in the news paper forever, complete with full name in the caption.... sports, and other things. in the pack, we were always careful to use only first names and last initials if needed, in the rare case when wee'd post a scouts name on the pack site. but not on facebook. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stosh Posted February 17, 2016 Share Posted February 17, 2016 Go down to the local grade school with a camera and start taking pictures of kids. 50 years ago, it would have been no big deal, it'll draw a lot of unwanted attention today. I've been in the "Kid Business" now for 45 years and I have seen a lot of changes during that time. There are things I did 40 years ago that I wouldn't even think of doing today. The world has changed and if one doesn't keep up with the times, it could jump up and bite them. I don't want to be anywhere near a situation like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwazse Posted February 17, 2016 Share Posted February 17, 2016 Honestly, boys chopping and burning wood is the least of your concern. (Unless you're in an area with a burn ban!) Do you have releases from all the parents that it's okay to use pictures of their boys to promote the pack? I did have a pack parent who once denied such a release -- for good reason. So, no pictures that year. But, assuming parents have granted you permission. Pictures of boys chopping wood at an early age while visiting a troop are no problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stosh Posted February 17, 2016 Share Posted February 17, 2016 (edited) @@qwazse I'm thinking the concern was not so much the published picture in as much as seeing a Cub Scout using an ax. The Whittling Chip" applies only to pocket knives, not woods tools that takes the "Totin' Chit" and that can't be earned as a Cub. Edited February 17, 2016 by Stosh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krampus Posted February 17, 2016 Share Posted February 17, 2016 The other day I was going over pictures from our Pack Facebook Page. I am putting together a timeline of photos for the upcoming Arrow of Light Ceremony of the Webelos from when they started as Tigers until now. I noticed a group of photos of the current webelos II as Webelos I using axes and chopping wood at either a Boy Scout Campout or a Boy Scout Meeting visit. Should I have these photos taken down as it appears to violate the guide to safe scouting for using tools. Our Facebook page is open to District and Council leaders and I don't want anyone in trouble over it. Am I incorrect in my thinking? Yes, I would take them down. The troop and your unit could get in trouble. We always follow the BSA social media guidelines. We go a further step and require all families to sign a photo release where we will only use certain pictures and only first names. They can revoke permission at any time or simply request a certain picture be taken down. We also require parents attending camp refrain from "tagging" anyone other than their scout in their social media posts. I wouldn't have pictures of other people's children on a FB page in the first place, regardless of what they are doing. Maybe a picture where none of their faces show might be okay, but I don't think it's worth the risk. I have a ton of pictures of the boys on their outings, just none of them on the internet. The people who want to find that information can find it at any time. If really tried I could probably find the real names, addresses and emails of most of the people on this forum by the end of the day. When you know where and how to look it really isn't that tough. Heck, I could hang around ANY scout event and get names, addresses, etc., using non-technology means just as easy. I imagine dumpster diving at you local council office would get me even more. I HIGHLY doubt they shred EVERY page that has membership data on it. The best you can do is follow all the safety guidelines and train the boys to be vigilant. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cambridgeskip Posted February 17, 2016 Share Posted February 17, 2016 Go down to the local grade school with a camera and start taking pictures of kids. 50 years ago, it would have been no big deal, it'll draw a lot of unwanted attention today. I've been in the "Kid Business" now for 45 years and I have seen a lot of changes during that time. There are things I did 40 years ago that I wouldn't even think of doing today. The world has changed and if one doesn't keep up with the times, it could jump up and bite them. I don't want to be anywhere near a situation like that. From reading this thread I don't think the culture regarding photography is really that different on the two sides of the Atlantic, which is why I'm slightly puzzled by your comment. I too take a lot of photos of scout events and the majority of them end up being posted on our group website. If we're talking about the photographer protecting themselves then I would argue that taking photos of children and then having a clear purpose for that, ie the promotion of a scout group via its website, puts the photographer in a far stronger position than taking photos of children full stop. Let me clear, I am not for one moment saying there is anything inherently wrong with the latter case. Unless I've misunderstood? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stosh Posted February 17, 2016 Share Posted February 17, 2016 One can have a ton of pictures for the Historian to use, They aren't available for the WebMaster. WebMaster gets the picture of the camp with no one in it, pictures of dutch ovens on the coals, picnic tables all laid out for dinner, bear bags hanging in the trees, canoes pulled up along the shore, etc We also have videos of the boys, for the historian, but they are only used for in-house recruiting, COH backgrounds, etc.They never make it to the WebMaster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krampus Posted February 17, 2016 Share Posted February 17, 2016 One can have a ton of pictures for the Historian to use, They aren't available for the WebMaster. WebMaster gets the picture of the camp with no one in it, pictures of dutch ovens on the coals, picnic tables all laid out for dinner, bear bags hanging in the trees, canoes pulled up along the shore, etc We also have videos of the boys, for the historian, but they are only used for in-house recruiting, COH backgrounds, etc.They never make it to the WebMaster. So no pictures of the scouts for local papers? Nothing sent to Boy's Life? Council or District websites? Lodge websites? Jamboree or high adventure base pictures? @@blw2 is right, posting online CAN BE no different than being published in hard copy medium. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stosh Posted February 17, 2016 Share Posted February 17, 2016 So no pictures of the scouts for local papers? A press release is done and the parents are invited to provide a picture for the rekease. Some do, some don't. The picture I have used on the forum here showing one of my Eagle scouts doing his project was a photo taken from the on-line news article where the photo was taken by the media photographer with parent's permission. Nothing sent to Boy's Life? Nope Council or District websites? Nope Lodge websites? Nope Jamboree or high adventure base pictures? Nope @@blw2 is right, posting online CAN BE no different than being published in hard copy medium. If District or Council take pictures of my boys, I am assuming they have taken all the necessary releases, disclaimers, permissions necessary. If they haven't, it's not my problem. The less I know about these things, the less likely I'm going to need to testify somewhere down the road. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwazse Posted February 17, 2016 Share Posted February 17, 2016 @@qwazse I'm thinking the concern was not so much the published picture in as much as seeing a Cub Scout using an ax. The Whittling Chip" applies only to pocket knives, not woods tools that takes the "Totin' Chit" and that can't be earned as a Cub. I understand the concern. Axes aren't part Weblos' age-appropriate activities. So, a den shouldn't bother setting up an axe yard. But does that mean that a troop can't set up the yard when Webelos are around? That a Webelos can't train under the guidance of the troop during a troop activity to use an axe? And even if the behavior is suspect. Should we encourage scouters to sweep it under the rug? Better to let folks see what happen. Somebody who cares to make a comment, and unit leaders think "Oh, add that to the things to improve upon next time." It's happened to me (with venturers who've given me permission to share pics), and I'm better and wiser for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
perdidochas Posted February 17, 2016 Share Posted February 17, 2016 (edited) Honestly, boys chopping and burning wood is the least of your concern. (Unless you're in an area with a burn ban!) Do you have releases from all the parents that it's okay to use pictures of their boys to promote the pack? I did have a pack parent who once denied such a release -- for good reason. So, no pictures that year. But, assuming parents have granted you permission. Pictures of boys chopping wood at an early age while visiting a troop are no problem. Well, you should have the Part A and B medical form for all scouts, and it has the photo release on it (on part of Part A). Edited February 17, 2016 by perdidochas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cambridgeskip Posted February 17, 2016 Share Posted February 17, 2016 One can have a ton of pictures for the Historian to use, They aren't available for the WebMaster. WebMaster gets the picture of the camp with no one in it, pictures of dutch ovens on the coals, picnic tables all laid out for dinner, bear bags hanging in the trees, canoes pulled up along the shore, etc We also have videos of the boys, for the historian, but they are only used for in-house recruiting, COH backgrounds, etc.They never make it to the WebMaster. Understood! While I understand why you are doing it that way I do think you are missing a trick though. Photos of scouts doing fun stuff with big smiles on their face is the best recruitment tool we have. Think about that photo of the canoe on the shore, put a photo of that same canoe in the water with a smiling scout in it and you have recruitment gold. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwazse Posted February 17, 2016 Share Posted February 17, 2016 From reading this thread I don't think the culture regarding photography is really that different on the two sides of the Atlantic, which is why I'm slightly puzzled by your comment. I too take a lot of photos of scout events and the majority of them end up being posted on our group website. If we're talking about the photographer protecting themselves then I would argue that taking photos of children and then having a clear purpose for that, ie the promotion of a scout group via its website, puts the photographer in a far stronger position than taking photos of children full stop. Let me clear, I am not for one moment saying there is anything inherently wrong with the latter case. Unless I've misunderstood? 'skip, my one denial of release was an adopted boy with a bio parent who had a restraining order. So, the more local and specific the website, the more risky sharing would be. It just meant we were a little more attentive about what got shared that year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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