when is eagle project signed by SM

[Krampus]

We are talking two different things.

The SM has to sign at two different times--one for the proposal (the last page of the proposal), and the second time after project completion.  I was talking about when the SM signs AFTER the project is actually completed (i.e. after everything but the paperwork is done).  The beneficiary and the Scoutmaster (unit leader) sign after the proposal is done, and then again when the workbook is finished.  The CC and district people only sign at the proposal phase.

 

I get what you are saying. Usually when we hold SMCs for rank it is because the scout can attest to all requirements for that rank being completed.

 

If you go by the book, the SM signature is recognition that Requirement #5 (service project) is completed. Above the signature line it specifically says "In my opinion, this Eagle Scout service project meets Eagle Scout requirement 5, as stated on page 4 of this workbook.". So if you sign the final report at the SMC you are essentially taking a meeting where all the requirements have not been officially completed.

 

Personally, I'd prefer the requirements to be signed off prior to the SMC if at all possible. It puts the onus on the scout to make sure all his cards and book are signed before making a meeting.. I would expect only a few exceptions to this process.

 

To each his own.

[perdidochas]

I just looked at the current workbook.  The final signatures required that project is complete:

Scout

Beneficiary

Unit Leader

 

Not sure where the second Unit signature is....

There is none.  My youngest finished his Eagle project workbook this summer (finished the project last spring), and he brought the workbook to the CC after the beneficiary and SM had signed it, and then realized that he was done with the signatures. 

[perdidochas]

I see. I would expect that to be part of the success criteria marking the project done to the beneficiary's satisfaction. We advise all of our scouts to include these things in their project plan; a check list if you will on what constitutes a successful completion of the project which both the beneficiary and the scout agree to as part of his plan.

 

Again, not part of the workbook but something we heavily suggest be done. Clearly whoever created the BSA workbook has never proposed or responded to a proposal before. The plan should be agreed to by both parties so we know what and how things will be done and when it is considered complete.

 

Well, does the beneficiary really need to know how the project is done?  I do think it would be a good idea for the Scout to get the Unit leader's approval on this part. I DON'T want the district/council to be involved in that stage.

[Krampus]

Well, does the beneficiary really need to know how the project is done?  I do think it would be a good idea for the Scout to get the Unit leader's approval on this part. I DON'T want the district/council to be involved in that stage.

 

Does the beneficiary need to know how the project is done? Of course!! Would you let any work crew work on your house without a detailed plan on how and when things will get done?

 

BSA is missing the boat by not having the unit and beneficiary sign off on the PLAN as well as the proposal. 

[zuzy]

I am just a mom.  But I think the final plan should have to be signed as well.  Now my son, he did not have the plan done completely or signed.  He did okay with his project, as he is somewhat of a perfectionist to begin with.  But I am wondering about the other scouts that really do not know or understand the execution of their project.  Those are the ones that could benefit from the once over.  I can understand that it is more time and more hassles to have it signed off, but if it prevents failure?  Why not.

[dfolson]

It does state that the beneficiary can require the plan be written and approved by them before work begins.

[Stosh]

Well, if you haven't read the project proposal, you are being dishonest signing it.  Here is the verbage from the actual proposal in the Unit Leader approval section.

 

Unit Leader Approval*

I have reviewed this proposal and discussed it with the candidate. I

believe it provides impact worthy of an Eagle Scout service project,

and will involve planning, development, and leadership. I am

comfortable the Scout understands what to do, and how to lead the

effort. I will see that the project is monitored, and that adults or

others present will not overshadow him.

 

Before accusing someone of dishonesty, one may wish to consider that one's own personal opinion isn't always the only honest way of doing things.

 

I have reviewed this proposal and discussed it with the candidate.

 

Long before the boy puts pen to paper I as SM have spent a lot of time with the scout going over a number of different possible Eagle projects for him to consider.  I don't always know the boy well enough to understand what kind of project he is even interested in doing.  I have projects of various difficulty for the boy to consider and he may wish to take an easy proposal because he is getting dangerously close to aging out or he may wish to take on a serious challenge for his project.  Again, I have no idea what he may have in mind.  So he gets a handful of proposals to consider.

I believe it provides impact worthy of an Eagle Scout service project,

 

I wouldn't offer up a proposal if I didn't think it was worthy of an Eagle Scout service project in the first place.

and will involve planning, development, and leadership.

 

Obviously how much planning, development, and leadership varies from one proposal to another, but it's not something that I would consider a walk in the park for the boy but there is going to be some degree of planning, development, and leadership that can be sufficient to meet the requirements of the rank advancement.

 

I am comfortable the Scout understands what to do, and how to lead the effort.

 

If a boy feels comfortable with handing me a proposal for signature, I'm comfortable he knows what he's doing.

 

I will see that the project is monitored, and that adults or others present will not overshadow him.

 

I do that with all boy-led activity in the troop, just because it's an Eagle project doesn't mean the rules for adults change.

 

Other than signing, what's left for me to do?  Check his spelling?  Not my job.  Check his grammar?  Not my job. After all, why is he presenting it to me to be signed if I'm going to be doing all sorts of things before actually putting my John Hancock on the document?  He wanted me to sign.  I did.  End of discussion.

 

If the boy put together his proposal and presented it to me to be signed and I did not sign it, that would be dishonest.  Whether I read it or not it makes no difference other than for me to exercise my control authority as an adult and keeper of the gate to Eagledom and that in my subjective judgment of his thoughts, his ideas, his effort, his logic, his passion, his interest doesn't make grade, then I don't sign it, make him do it over, correct his spelling and grammar and then come back when it meets MY STANDARDS, then I'll sign.  If one is looking for dishonesty, I see dishonesty written all over that process.  My process says to the boy, "This is your project proposal, I trust you to do it right, where do I sign?"