Do your scouts have patrol level POR's?

[Eagledad]

I was afraid that might be the case.

It sounds like you are next in line.

 

The previous scoutmaster and I were close and a lot of times the only difference between us in are actions with the scouts was the titles on our shoulder patch. I learned quickly after getting becoming the SM that the title carried a heavy weight of responsibility that I never felt as an ASM.

 

Careful what you wish for.

 

That being said, it was a wonderful experience.

 

Barry

Edited February 18, 2016 by Eagledad

[Stosh]

How soon a boy takes on a POR whether they get credit for it or not depends on the boy himself.  I have two boys in my troop, but we are doing the Webelos II AOL training.  Last night the Webelos boys split into two patrols and selected a PL for each.  The two Boy Scouts will work as TG's for the patrols.  One patrol selected a PL based on Rock, Paper, Scissors and the other patrol took their time and picked what I thought was the best choice in the group even though he expressed strong reluctance of taking the POR.  Neither of the two Boy Scouts were real high quality TG material, but all in all, this is the hand we have been dealt.  The patrols picked were 5 boys in one patrol and 3 boys in the other.  The 3 member patrol were the "left over boys".

 

We played a trivia game.  Rules were only the PL could answer the question, but the patrol could work with him in coming up with the answer.  We had the PL not know the 12 Scout Laws but one of his patrol members gave him the laws one at a time so he would answer the question.  This was the left over patrol.    Good team work, bigger patrol struggled, too many opinions. 

 

Well as lopsided and convoluted as the whole thing was, the game ended in a 10/10 tie.  One final tie breaker left the larger patrol  with the reluctant leader as the winner and the PL was given the bag of cookies prize and told he could decide who got what.  This quiet reluctant PL made sure all the boys in his patrol got a cookie, all the boys in the losing patrol got a cookie, the TGs got a cookie, all the adult scouters got a cookie and every parent in the room got a cookie and 3 cookies were given back to me at the end.  All my ASM had to say was, "That was different!" 

 

Anyone that wishes to argue with me that 10 years old is too young to start serious leadership training will get an earful from me. I'm really excited about this coming year in the new troop! 

[Krampus]

Our unit has a POR requirement for most troop positions of being First Class. In the past previous SMs used that as a rule. We now use them as guidelines. When a boy has earned the trust of the senior leaders (and SM) he's encouraged to take a role.

[Sentinel947]

Trust comes at the price of time and integrity. Sometimes a new scout wanted to be the patrol leader his first year and struggled because his patrol wouldn't elect him. I encouraged him by explaining that he needed to "earn" the trust of his patrol by making good decisions over time. Good decisions can mean supporting the present leadership and working hard for the patrol.

 

Most Scoutmasters got that responsibility through hard work supporting the previous Scoutmaster.

 

Barry

Uh oh. I don't like the implications of that.. 

[Hedgehog]

It sounds like you are next in line.

 

...

 

Careful what you wish for.

 

That being said, it was a wonderful experience.

 

 

So that's what it means when the CC and current SM say "we've got plans for you..." 

 

Son decided to join Boy Scouts (I was travelling when he visited the Troop), I attended the first meeting in civilian clothes.  Got the tap on the shoulder and was asked, "Were's your uniform."  I responded, "I don't have a patch."  They responded, "We can easily fix that..."  Asked son what he thought about me being a leader, he said he hoped I'd do it.  From that point on, I had no choice but to "do my best..."

 

I know what I'm getting myself into and I'll be tapping the shoulders of others to help me -- both other adults and the boys that i've worked with over the past couple of years.

[Stosh]

Our unit has a POR requirement for most troop positions of being First Class. In the past previous SMs used that as a rule. We now use them as guidelines. When a boy has earned the trust of the senior leaders (and SM) he's encouraged to take a role.

 

Each patrol decides it's own leadership on whatever criteria they wish.  No adult rules to follow here.  They live and die with their selections. 

 

They are free to choose anyone in the troop to be their PL, they are not restricted to just their patrol members.  The only criteria is that they are asked not to go over 8 boys in the patrol.  Small patrols of <6 often select a scout who is interested in getting POR credit for advancement while supplementing their membership numbers in the patrol.

 

Because we tend to have less than 4 patrols, we don't use a full-time SPL.  Usually one of the PL's fills that role for special occasions, i.e. summer camp and camporees.  Other troop POR positions are filled by consensus of PL's. rather than SPL appointment.  The SPL whether temporary or full-time, is selected by PL consensus as well.  On the rare occasion I was near to the discussion on such matters, the discussion revolves more around whether or not the think the scout can and will do the work rather than what rank he wears on his shirt.

[Eagle94-A1]

Our unit has a POR requirement for most troop positions of being First Class. In the past previous SMs used that as a rule. We now use them as guidelines. When a boy has earned the trust of the senior leaders (and SM) he's encouraged to take a role.

 

Maybe I'm old school, or maybe I'm just heavily influenced by my troop growing up.  Only elected POR that had specific requirements was SPL: First Class Scout and had served as a PL. ASPL had the same requirements.

 

PLs and APLs could be any rank. While the troop level PORs: QM, Scribe etc didn't have rank requirements, usually the Scouts in those positions were members of the Leadership Corps, and they were usually First Class or higher.

[Eagledad]

Maybe I'm old school, or maybe I'm just heavily influenced by my troop growing up.  Only elected POR that had specific requirements was SPL: First Class Scout and had served as a PL. ASPL had the same requirements.

 

 

It is old school because it came from the traditional scouting days where first class marked the scout as having the skills to camp in the woods safely without assistance. Senior Scouts Leaders should certainly have those skills. At the time I was SM, patrols could camp without adults, so we encourage first class for PLs for the same reason. But a trusted level of maturity isn't the prevailing perception of a the first class rank today.

 

Barry

[Stosh]

I can fully understand being FC for unsupervised patrol activities, but now that that is no longer applicable, it's pretty much a moot point.

[TAHAWK]

Since the adults are not supposed to intervene except for safety issues, why is the skill-level of the PL moot?  He is supposed to be the primary teacher of those skills.

[Eagle94-A1]

Since the adults are not supposed to intervene except for safety issues, why is the skill-level of the PL moot?  He is supposed to be the primary teacher of those skills.

 

 One reason why I don't like the NSP concept.  Also why i like youth signing off on the S-T-2-1 requirements.

[Stosh]

 One reason why I don't like the NSP concept.  Also why i like youth signing off on the S-T-2-1 requirements.

 

What's that got to do with the NSP concept?  If one is all that worried about it, the Instructors could sign off at the end of their instruction, the TG's could help instruct the NSP PL with signing off and of course there's always the possibility that the NSP is PL'ed by a FC scout. 

 

Everyone is so into being anti-NSP they forget there are a number of options out there that work just fine with the concept. 

 

The only reason I am somewhat gung ho on the concept is because my boys seem to like it and so what they want, I help them become successful at it.  It's not what I want that is important, But what they want and need is.

[Sentinel947]

Agreed with Stosh. My Troop has had NSPs since it was started in the 90s. Adults don't sign off requirements. The Troop guides do.

[TAHAWK]

Agreed with Stosh. My Troop has had NSPs since it was started in the 90s. Adults don't sign off requirements. The Troop guides do.

That has been my experience with the NSP.

 

My experience is also that, at least at first, the cross-overs want to stay together.  

[qwazse]

My observation: if you (adults, boys, whoever) want all patrols to perform skills at roughly the same level, you will not like NSPs. Better to encourage new scouts to be adopted into seasoned patrols as soon as possible. If you want patrols to be diversified .... Some more high adventure some working on first class in the fore country ... then you will like NSPs.

 

It also depends on who you have as troop guides. Some are fine with starting from scratch with a half dozen crossovers. Others can only handle a couple or three with the help of their PL and APL. It's these boots-on-the ground decisions that dictate how you configure the membership. You can go for years with everything working one way, and then personalities dictate doing it differently.