Which Shoulder Loops?

[RememberSchiff]

I wish the uniforms looked like that now honestly. 

Full size neckers worn CORRECTLY over the collar, those were the days. I wore one of those "Steve Canyon" field caps and I will take today's baseball cap.

[Stosh]

I put together a 1910 BSA field uniform for the Centennial Jamboree and for the spring and fall camporees which can be be in quite "chilly" temperatures (yes, we have had snow at the camporees), I still wear the uniform.  Long wool underwear, wool socks, pants and leggings.  The shirt is wool as is the tunic, The campaign hat is wool felt.  Never get cold all weekend long.  There's a reason why BSA had that uniform originally. 

 

We're the only troop I have ever met that has the full square neckers.  They are large as well, hang beyond the belt on the smaller guys.  To the belt or a bit above on adults.

Edited February 12, 2016 by Stosh

[blw2]

I'm thinking of getting one of those thermarest cots, or similar

Down here in FL, I figure it will help to extend my camping season a bit, with the airflow under it.  

 

I historically don't camp locally in the summer.  Just too hot and muggy for my liking.  I'm wondering if I'll violate my rule more, now that I'm with the troop that camps monthly.

 

As a one time exception...I'm planning to go to summer camp this year as an observing committee member.  Hopefully it'll be a bit cooler in TN though.

[desertrat77]

Those old uniforms looked good and stood up well in the outdoors.

 

I've got two old BSA canvas tents, and still use them, though not as frequently as I'd prefer these days.  They are simple and as others have mentioned, that canvas smell really takes you back.   Real camping.

[fred johnson]

... so I'm a bit confused about what shoulder loops I should wear with my unit uniform. ...

 

Wow.  I wish all questions were as thoughtful as this one.  I applaud you on your wanting to do what is right.  I am similar to Stosh and others.  Wear the uniform and epaulet color that reflects the reason you are attending.  If you are a volunteer in the unit, wear the unit colors.  If you are attending to represent the council, wear those.

 

I've seen the reverse and it causes friction.  Example --> A unit committee member who helps at the district or council wears silver epaulets with the intention to use the credibility from that role to get more influence in his unit.  Sometimes when that happens, the volunteer has an agenda that is unhealthy for volunteering in the troop.  

 

When in doubt, be humble.  

[The Latin Scot]

Question! The Bears Den Leader in my pack was just called recently and, bless his heart, has little idea what's going on. He got a uniform shirt and just happened to get the bright green Venturing epaulets, not knowing the colors had any significance. Should I take a moment to help point out to him the meanings of the colors, or do I risk being regarded as the Fashion Police? Should I just buy the blue ones and give them to him? Do I ignore it all together and mind my own business? I appreciate any thoughts on how to handle this; I notice other leaders in our cub pack, including his ADL, are wearing the wrong colors too, including orange and red. What would be a tactful way to address this matter, if at all?

[qwazse]

Let your bear DL know about his mistake. If you can afford to cover it, buy his epaulets on condition that someday he'll look into volunteering as an adult for a venturing crew. (Suggest he hang them from the bathroom mirror until that day. Mrs. Bear DL will love you for it!)

 

Also inform your other den leaders of the proper insignia, but let them know nobody has to make any immediate changes.

 

The one leader may be a leader in a troop, so you may do well to ask why their uniforms are the way they are.

 

Say it once, don't harp on it. This is one of those things that you'll always notice but won't change how much your people love their boys.

[The Latin Scot]

Thanks for the advice! I know already none of the other cub leaders serve in other positions; in fact the ADL for the Bears is the only one who has ever been in Scouting before, which I imagine is why he is the leader with red epaulets. He was actually the assistant Scoutmaster over my New Scout Patrol as a kid and hasn't done scouting since. The other leaders are nice guys but none of them have done much Scouting before, despite the fact that they are all at least 20 years older than I am. I just feel awkward offering advice at all to a bunch of gentlemen who are my senior.

Edited August 2, 2016 by The Latin Scot

[qwazse]

Check Red's position patch. It might still be ASM!

 

Yeah, I remember that "Young buck thinks hew knows is stuff", eye roll.

 

Just put it in the form of a question, "Says here that Pack epaulets are blue for all adults. Think we should sync up?"

[meyerc13]

The Latin Scot - you might be able to use this as an opportunity to educate the entire Pack about wearing the uniform correctly.  Contact your Unit Commissioner and ask if he can do a Uniform Inspection for your Pack.  Hopefully your Unit Commissioner understands that (From the Commissioner Fieldbook):

• He is supposed to do it in a "friendly [...] manner"
• It is supposed to be "a high-morale event"
• It is supposed to help "develop unit pride"

Explain to the UC that you know that some of your leaders have issues with their uniform, and you'd like to use some gentle ribbing to educate them, but also to give the boys more pride in their own wearing of the uniform.  Ask if he can be extra tough on the leaders' inspection.

 

I would send a copy of the Cub Scout or Webelos Uniform Inspection Sheet home with the boys in advance, and let them get ready and practice for the Uniform Inspection.  Maybe do a pre-inspection the week before the Pack meeting.

 

When the week of the Pack Meeting comes around, have the Dens line up, and then have the UC announce that all registered leaders - Cubmaster, Den Leaders, and Committee Members, should also fall in for inspection.

 

Now, here is where you employ some showmanship.  Before the UC starts his inspection, ask the UC for permission to speak... and issue a challenge to the Leaders - ask the dens to get together and pick the den they think is the best uniformed, and put their score up against the leaders' score.

 

If your Pack is anything like most I've seen, some portion (possibly large) of the Committee will be out of uniform.  You're probably also going to have plenty of adult leaders who aren't wearing neckerchiefs, pants, socks, etc.  Hopefully your best dressed den (having prepared in advance) will be in better shape than the adults.  Since 20 points is for general appearance (and most adults won't have the good posture of a sharply dressed Cub Scout standing at attention)... I'm sure that the Den can beat the adults if you compare the average score of each.

 

Edit:  By the way - if your boys need copies of their Membership Cards, these can be printed by your unit Key 3 out of my.scouting.org.  The Commissioner can also print replacement cards.

Edited August 2, 2016 by meyerc13

[The Latin Scot]

These are some great ideas! I think if we were to pit the kids against the leaders, the leaders would lose pretty badly, lol. I have been having uniform inspections with my Webelos for the past two months now; they all earned their Webelos rank at the same time, and they wanted to all rise together at Pack Meeting to receive their awards as one body. I thought that was very mature of them. So, I required them to have their uniforms all up to par, and inspected them for the few weeks before the Pack Meeting, and wow - they rose to the challenge! I have NEVER seen them look so good, and many parents confessed they were amazed at how sharp they looked - we are a very California area of sandals and basketball shorts with MAYBE a scout shirt if we are lucky. Now that my boys have their uniforms so finely put together, I make sure to keep it up at every den meeting with the promise that if they all come perfectly uniformed for 8 weeks straight, I will add a specially-made doodle to the den flag AND I will bring a healthy treat for them to that 9th den meeting.

 

So maybe I should do the same for the leaders! haha. I do like the idea of having an inspection like that at a Pack Meeting: that way the leaders are put on the spot (a good thing at this age) AND the parents see some accountability on the leadership's part as well. I like transparency in an organization, and I think the boys would love the chance for an easy win against their leaders. It's high time WE learned something from THEM. If we as leaders can't even get the right shoulder loops, what exactly are we modelling to the boys in the first place?

[meyerc13]

I'm glad you like my idea.  I know how I, as a Commissioner, would handle this situation, but part of me is nervous making the suggestion because I know that some Scouters are very opinionated about uniforms.  I'd like to think that all Commissioners would be able to approach a uniform inspection in a friendly manner, but I know that isn't likely the case.  You may want to speak to your Unit Commissioner and/or District Commissioner first, and outline what you are trying to do, and stress that you want this to be a friendly competition between the boys and adults, and you don't want any of the boys in the other dens to leave feeling bad about 'doing their best' with their uniform (since this is Cub Scouting, not the military).  If your UC can't handle that, then perhaps the DC can send you a UC who can - at least for the uniform inspection.

 

The goal here is to get the leaders and other dens to dress as sharply as it sounds like your den is already doing.  We don't need perfection or even full uniforms, but they should wear as much of the uniform as they have with pride.  I'd rather see a tucked in shirt than a Scout with neckerchief, pants, and socks but the shirt untucked or otherwise looking sloppy.  Tucking in his uniform is something that every boy can do, buying $25+ Scout pants isn't always an option for every boy.  In either case, though, for Cub Scouts we want to stress what they are doing right, and perhaps suggest any opportunities for them to do better with whatever part of the uniform that they have - not stress every little thing that they are doing wrong.  It's all in the tone, and hopefully you have a good UC who can set the right tone.

[mgood777]

I would suggest one would use the color for the position one holds.  I am a SM so I wear the red when I wear the shirt with the SM patch on it and when I function as a UC, I wear silver on the shirt with the UC patch. It has no bearing on what I do in real life, when I volunteer, I wear the appropriate uniform for the role I am presently assuming.  To wear a BSA uniform as an ASM with silver would be inappropriate as far as my opinion runs.  Your mileage may vary.

 

I agree.

 

My opinion (influenced by Philmont policy when I worked there in 1988 & 90) is that shoulder loops should match badge of office.

I'm a District Commissioner and wear silver loops.

But in addition to that, I've recently become a Crew Committee Chairman and an Assistant Cubmaster.

I have purchased a set of the lighter green loops for a Venturing uniform and a set of blue loops for a shirt I'm going to put the Asst. Cubmaster badge on. I'll still wear my Commissioner insignia and silver loops most of the time. But when functioning specifically as a member of a unit, I'll wear the appropriate badge of office and shoulder loops for the position. I don't NEED all that. I could just wear the one Commissioner uniform all the time. But I've gone to events where I'm wearing the uniform every day for a week or more, so having extras is nice. Might as well have one for each position.

[Gwaihir]

Is red still legit on a modern uniform?  I saw guys with red and green tonight and while I prefer the red myself, it was odd seeing the two representing the same thing, the Boy Scouts as it were. 

[Chadamus]

Yes, Gwaihir, the red loops can still be worn. Check post #9 in this thread for more information.

I wear the red ones. Red unit numbers also