Update thread

[htusa31]

The last thread got a little off track. Im going to try and keep this one as my primary update thread.

 

I am a little over a month into being SM, and here is where we stand.

 

I am working on getting to completely boy led. It has taken some doing but I think I am almost there. I sat down with my SPL, ASPL(PL) and only ASM (at the time, I have brought the others up to speed)

I told the SPL, ASPL, that this is their troop. They are going to run this troop. The SM, ASM's, are here to help you run it. You (the boys)are doing the planning and the leading. 

 

I asked them what they thought a typical meeting consisted of. They said tying a few knots, working on a merit badge, and then talking about school, life etc.. They said they wait for the SM to tell them what to do. (this is what they have typically been doing)

 

I told them that SM run was changing ASAP. I expect them to keep up with the time. Start and end the meeting on time. I only want to talk (unless they need help) when its SM's Minute which should be the last 5 minutes of a meeting.(part of that is clean up)

 

I then gave them a list of things to do around the area and told them to plan one thing a month. Ill update the list with new stuff and for them to ask their troop what they want to do. 

I then gave them a blank calendar, (I already plugged in the fundraising events planned), told them to plan it out and that from here on out they plan the events. They tell me when and where, then I will hand off. I said Ill let them know if I can get enough help to do what they want that month, but I need at least a months notice for a event.

 

Informed them that if they want these trips paid for they will need to come up with fundraising ideas and plug them in as well. I gave them a list of approved fundraising events and items to sell. (items that will be the most beneficial)

 

They have hung the calendar in the meeting room, for all to reference what we are doing.(their idea)

 

As for the meeting, I said to come up with things to do that month that pertain to trip they are taking. For instance, they wanted to go to the aquarium this month. They are now planning things that involve mammal study, reptile study, fishing, scuba, what to do when lost in a city type city situation(providing everyone with a map), potential first aid situations, they are planning out the schedule etc...  I am excited to see what else they come up with. (again all their idea)

 

I then led the next meeting after this chat, showing them how one can be properly run. (They are young and needed a model to go by, think the E.D.G.E. method.) I told them this is not the perfect way but just an example. 

 

I let them run the next meeting(2nd meeting since chat) and then had them write down what they though went wrong and how they can fix it. 

 

The next meeting(3rd meeting since chat), is completely theirs to run. Pretty sure it will go smoothly. I am amazed at their level of confidence in leading now. I just had to teach them how and push them out the door. 

 

I have already seen the younger Scouts start to look up to the leaders. They are already going to them for answers etc.... 

 

I think now I can pull each boy one by one and go over some of their requirements again to make sure we are on the same page. 

 

Ohhhh.....

I guess the word got out about me running the troop. I had 3 new/2 returning (5 total)boys show up over the past few meetings. They said they heard that we are doing some fun stuff and they want in. So now I have 13 total boys. Troop is growing. 

In April we have a boy cross over, and then in May another. Should have 15 by the end of May. 

I think I may have them split into two patrols at that point. 

 

Things are happening quick.

Edited February 9, 2016 by htusa31

[blw2]

nice!

just curious....what age and rank are the SPL and ASPL you're writing about here?

[htusa31]

nice!

just curious....what age and rank are the SPL and ASPL you're writing about here?

Thanks. Figured it would blow up in my face (thinking the SPL might quit and take his 2 brothers with him), so far it has put confidence in the young man. 

 

16 is the SPL(will become Eagle in roughly May), 14 is the ASPL(PL)

Edited February 9, 2016 by htusa31

[Krampus]

Thanks. Figured it would blow up in my face (thinking the SPL might quit and take his 2 brothers with him), so far it has put confidence in the young man. 

 

16 is the SPL(will become Eagle in roughly May), 14 is the ASPL(PL)

 

It is slow in any troop moving from adult to boy led. Our own troop took a while to do it. The boys gradually accepted that they truly did have total control. They still go off the rails every now and again -- or you get a leader or leadership team that just does not jive no matter what you do or how well you train them. And you may never be done with your work. No sooner does one set of boys "get it" then you have another group coming in to teach all over.

[qwazse]

Nice job! You set the right tone. It is gratifying when people count on your good name.

 

As to when to split the boys, it all depends on how active they are. If they are all showing up to everything, they could form two patrols next month. If, like most troops with diverse boys, you're missing 3 or 4 at every activity, but they're never the same guys, you can wait to divide until after all your cross-overs are accounted for. Regardless, I suspect you'll want them in two groups before you do a week-long activity like summer camp. I find for that length of time, two small patrols accomplish a little more than one large patrol.

[Eagledad]

I then led the next meeting after this chat, showing them how one can be properly run. (They are young and needed a model to go by, think the E.D.G.E. method.) I told them this is not the perfect way but just an example. 

 

 

I remember talking with an older scout who had been with the troop since the beginning. I don't remember how this came up, but the scout said the only thing I remember in training during the early years that helped me a lot as a PL was when the adults modeled an ideal patrol corners meeting. He said everything all of a sudden made sense. The scouts in the new troop didn't have older scout role models to learn from.

 

Barry

[Stosh]

In theory that works fairly well, but if one boy along the way deviates a tad from the ideal model, then every boy after that will have learned the bad habits of the one.    That works for both the good and the bad.  Of course it also doesn't encourage improvements along the way, just the way we've always done it model is promoted.  And worst of all if the model isn't attainable by all scouts equally, the less talented may never get a chance to show what they can do.  

 

Models make me nervous, so I rely on developing whatever talent the boy has rather than trying to mold him to the model.  Some of my best leaders have tended to be quite a bit off plumb.

[qwazse]

...

Models make me nervous, so I rely on developing whatever talent the boy has rather than trying to mold him to the model.  Some of my best leaders have tended to be quite a bit off plumb.

Now gents, @@htusa31 created this new topic so we wouldn't run it off the rails!

 

But, reinterpret Stosh's objection ... with the role-modelling approach can you model structure, but you can't model a desired character. For example, board can learn how to operate by Roberts' rules by observing other seasoned boards. However, if some members are bent on using the rules to muzzle others ... following the rules to a T will only keep malicious members in check and make the folks you'd really like to hear from not want to participate. Until you do the grunt-work of rebuilding the members' relationships with one another, giving them any model in which to operate will prove an exercise in futility.

 

Role modelling worked with this troop because the boys already liked each other. They knew they wanted to accomplish some things. They knew it wasn't happening the way they were doing it. And, they believed they could do it differently and achieve a different outcome. SM provides one demonstration, and they were ready to act, proceeding with minimal guidance in the form of routine evaluation.

 

I think NYLT, camporees, O/A, jamborees, and H/A contingents offer a variety of models that boys can evaluate. This partially helps avoid the "rut" that Stosh describes. But if boys aren't going in thinking "This is gonna help my troop/patrol back home," experiencing different models won't have much of a transforming effect. In that case, working with the boys as you observe their talents and adjusting to that over monthly activities is the better strategy.

Edited February 9, 2016 by qwazse

[htusa31]

It is slow in any troop moving from adult to boy led. Our own troop took a while to do it. The boys gradually accepted that they truly did have total control. They still go off the rails every now and again -- or you get a leader or leadership team that just does not jive no matter what you do or how well you train them. And you may never be done with your work. No sooner does one set of boys "get it" then you have another group coming in to teach all over.

 

Agreed, but if I didnt get them moving the right step then the troop ship would never be up righted. The model(s) that are being put in place, should keep the ship upright. I am hoping I dont have to train them other than a few pep talks here and there. I plan on using my individual time with them during the meetings to teach them how to lead so they will get multiple sources of guidance. One from me, one from the leaders in place.

Nice job! You set the right tone. It is gratifying when people count on your good name.

 

As to when to split the boys, it all depends on how active they are. If they are all showing up to everything, they could form two patrols next month. If, like most troops with diverse boys, you're missing 3 or 4 at every activity, but they're never the same guys, you can wait to divide until after all your cross-overs are accounted for. Regardless, I suspect you'll want them in two groups before you do a week-long activity like summer camp. I find for that length of time, two small patrols accomplish a little more than one large patrol.

It is very nice to know that my name means well. The boys were promised things by the old SM and he was absentee a lot. One parent the nail in the coffin was when the old SM didnt show up to any fundraising events. Once they found out a new SM was in and it was a prior Troop member they knew things were going to change. (Side story about why they knew things were going to change at the end of the post.)

 

I remember talking with an older scout who had been with the troop since the beginning. I don't remember how this came up, but the scout said the only thing I remember in training during the early years that helped me a lot as a PL was when the adults modeled an ideal patrol corners meeting. He said everything all of a sudden made sense. The scouts in the new troop didn't have older scout role models to learn from.

 

Barry

Thats the idea. Give them a model and tell them this is not the 100% right way but one of many.

In theory that works fairly well, but if one boy along the way deviates a tad from the ideal model, then every boy after that will have learned the bad habits of the one.    That works for both the good and the bad.  Of course it also doesn't encourage improvements along the way, just the way we've always done it model is promoted.  And worst of all if the model isn't attainable by all scouts equally, the less talented may never get a chance to show what they can do.  

 

Models make me nervous, so I rely on developing whatever talent the boy has rather than trying to mold him to the model.  Some of my best leaders have tended to be quite a bit off plumb.

Agree with that models are not 100% accurate but..... we all have to have something to mimic. Its human nature. For instance look at Tarzan, baby that grew up raised by gorillas. He modeled(mimic) after them. He had no other options.

Luckily I have a very open mind and use the scientific method in most things of life.

If the boys want change(formulation of a question) then I tell them to write it up(hypothesis) then bring it to me. At that point we will review it together, I will ask some questions and ask them think about how it will work and write it down.(prediction) I will then tell them to go experiment. (testing) After the initial try, we will sit down, write what went wrong and what we can do better at.(analysis) Decide if it worth another go, and etc.....

 

My plan is for them to gain enough confidence that they will start to think how can I make this better.

Now gents, @@htusa31 created this new topic so we wouldn't run it off the rails!

 

But, reinterpret Stosh's objection ... with the role-modelling approach can you model structure, but you can't model a desired character. For example, board can learn how to operate by Roberts' rules by observing other seasoned boards. However, if some members are bent on using the rules to muzzle others ... following the rules to a T will only keep malicious members in check and make the folks you'd really like to hear from not want to participate. Until you do the grunt-work of rebuilding the members' relationships with one another, giving them any model in which to operate will prove an exercise in futility.

 

Role modelling worked with this troop because the boys already liked each other. They knew they wanted to accomplish some things. They knew it wasn't happening the way they were doing it. And, they believed they could do it differently and achieve a different outcome. SM provides one demonstration, and they were ready to act, proceeding with minimal guidance in the form of routine evaluation.

 

I think NYLT, camporees, O/A, jamborees, and H/A contingents offer a variety of models that boys can evaluate. This partially helps avoid the "rut" that Stosh describes. But if boys aren't going in thinking "This is gonna help my troop/patrol back home," experiencing different models won't have much of a transforming effect. In that case, working with the boys as you observe their talents and adjusting to that over monthly activities is the better strategy.

This is why I want them to think outside the box. I had to get them out of the rut and into the box before they would start peeking over the fence. Now they are running with it, and we will see where it goes.

 

 

Ok side story. When I became Eagle. I made plaques. I made one for my grandparents, mom, dad, and the troop.

The parents, had the rank pins and a picture of me on them. I had the names of the ranks engraved on black brass, with the brass being the text color. 

I put this all on black walnut. This wood was from a couple of trees I cut down. I rough cut and planed each board. The entire plaques were handmade from scratch. Nothing store bought, other than the pins and black brass from the engraving shop. They are really nice. My dad passed a few years ago and I have the one I gave to him.

 

For the troop and scoutmasters. I cut the fleur-de-lis in a piece of 1 inch lexan. I put the Eagle patch and the eagle dollar coin(those were really hard to find)on a piece of black brass with the brass lettering on a black walnut board. I listed out all of the SM and ASM that helped me in the troop. 

The plaque hangs in the troop meeting room. 

 

This is from the parent.

You are the only Eagle out of the entire troop that took the time to make something to thank the troop. I know you have passion and love for this troop. I am confident that you are going to make it better and fun again.

Goes to show that the stuff you did in the past can positively(or negatively) effect the future. 

Edited February 10, 2016 by htusa31

[Eagledad]

In theory that works fairly well, but if one boy along the way deviates a tad from the ideal model, then every boy after that will have learned the bad habits of the one. 

In our case, it wasn't showing an ideal model, it was clarifying parts of it. The scouts were using the model from a copy of a PL Manual by William Hillcourt (Greenbar Bill). But as the saying goes, you don't know what you don't know. The handbook explains how in Patrol Corners the PL discusses patrol business with the quartermaster, grubmaster and so on. But it doesn't say what the discussions are about. Well of course we adults know from our experiences as scouts and assumed it was clear to the scouts. But the new scouts don't have that experience, so it was vague. When we adults simulated the PL talking with the patrol officers, their light bulb clicked on.

 

Most adult leaders think that training gets scouts prepared to function in their POR. It really doesn't. Training has basically two purposes in scouting: It prepares the scout just enough to give them confidence for starting in a new position. And it clarifies confusion of responsibilities or skills of the position, which was the case here.

 

Barry

 

Barry

[Stosh]

One also has to remember a POR is not necessarily spelled out as a leadership position in as much as it is a functional management position.  Taking care of the equipment (QM) can be done functionally with inventory records and check in/out processes and maintenance records, etc. which can be seen a success by measuring the effectiveness of completing each task.  But the leadership is not always part of the model.  It can be, but it is "measured" differently than simply doing the work necessary, i.e. taking an annual inventory of equipment, making sure all tents are repaired and ready for use, etc.  Instead, leadership is determined by the human component of the model which may or may not be emphasized by the unit.  Did the patrols get the equipment they needed, on time, in good condition to be used by the boys, and was the process of getting it easy and convenient to the patrols?  It's not the functional work, it's the taking care of your people model that may or may not specified in the model job description.

 

Every boy is different regardless of the job description and the modelling of one boy may confuse or put undue expectations on another boy that has great potential, but not with that model to follow.  If I had job descriptions to 2 different boys, they may in fact accomplish the same task using two entirely different "models"  So when the new boys come in, which do they follow?  This is why I always balk when using simple management techniques and calling them leadership. 

 

I want my boys to all see each POR as taking care of other people, not just doing a job.

[htusa31]

Another update. We are probably going to add an additional 5-10 boys to our troop in the next 30 days. The SM of a local Troop is dissolving. He doesn't have the help and cant do it alone any more. The troops members are going with us on our monthly trip this month to see if everyone meshes. (I dont see why not)

After that the boys and 2 ASM will transfer to my troop. They have been thinking about moving the boys to another local troop but they weren't convinced that troop was a good fit for their boys. Once they found out I was the SM at my troop, they said my reputation and dedication were the deciding factor. 

 

So we will see where this goes. I am sad to see a troop dissolve but happy my troop is growing.

[blw2]

I forgot, how many scouts did you start with?

... and these will bring the roster up to how many?

 

Regardless, it's great to see a big growth spurt like that i think.  It drives a lot of positive energy.

[htusa31]

I forgot, how many scouts did you start with?

... and these will bring the roster up to how many?

 

Regardless, it's great to see a big growth spurt like that i think.  It drives a lot of positive energy.

 

I started with 7. If we add the boys who came back and the new crossovers that makes it 14.

If we add these new boys we will be at 20-24.

[htusa31]

Ok so another update. 

 

WOW!!! Is all that I have for this update.

 

The dissolving troop is not dissolving. Its just pruning the few bad limbs. 

 

Initial contact was the travel coordinator chair at the dissolving troop (she has a few boys in the troop)

Anyways between our conversations, she said she was told to reach out and see about moving the boys to our troop. She was to use this trip as a test to see if they boys would mesh well. 

I went through the proper procedures, submitted our troops travel permit(our TC currently has no PC knowledge). I submitted our tax exempt info etc...

 

I sent a text to their TC to make sure they had submitted their info. She said oh I need to get with SM, to make sure we are actually doing this. 

Wait what??? You mean you havent cleared it with your SM first??

 

I finally get a number for the SM and give him a call. He tells me he has zero knowledge of dissolving the troop.  I explain to him the situation and tell him what is really going on. After I finish he just said "Oh well let me tell you about our TC. She is not completely stable, she thinks that since her boys (kids) run the troop that if she leaves the troop will just disappear. I refuse to come to any round table meetings and such when she is around (she is a pack leader too). So I am sorry she caused all of this." He said the entire committee, district unit chair, and leaders are trying to encourage her to leave as her and her boys are not positive energy. They have tried multiple times to teach them how the troop works and patrol method etc.. They simply refuse to do any of that and most meetings are just glorified gym class.

 

I told the SM that I should of reached out sooner, I assumed since I was talking to a committee chair that she would of gotten the approvals from every one else. 

After we talked about getting together (already went to dinner and made co-troop plans once she leaves) and assured one another that we are together in this etc... 

 

I have made a pretty good scouting friend out of this, and found a bad apple. 

 

Yes I was reluctant to believe anyone at that troop, but once the district unit chair (40 years of service) called and told me what was going on. I now know who to believe.

I am staying far away until she leaves. She has sent me multiple emails asking about our meetings and I keep ignoring her. I am hoping she will go away. 

This is all I need......