Screwup on the largest level

[fred johnson]

... So ... it's been a week or so ... what did the council say to do to handle the situation?

[perdidochas]

I respectfully disagree as a matter of English construction.

 

B.S.A. disagrees and is the final authority.

 

"Boy Scouting

The Boy Scout program is for boys who are 11 years old, are at least ten years old and have finished the fifth grade, or are at least ten years old and have earned the Arrow of Light rank as a Cub Scout."

 

"Boy Scouting is for boys 11 to 17 years of age. Boys also may become Boy Scouts if they have earned the Cub Scouting Arrow of Light Award and are at least 10 years old or have completed the fifth grade and are at least 10 years old."

Then they need to get all of their requirements to read the same in all places.

 

From http://www.scouting.org/scoutsource/BoyScouts/AdvancementandAwards/joining.aspx

Meet the age requirements. Be a boy who is 11 years old, or one who has completed the fifth grade or earned the Arrow of Light Award and is at least 10 years old, but is not yet 18 years old.

 

I read that as 11 years old

 or completed the fifth grade

or earned the Arrow of Light Award and is at least 10 years old.

 

Admittedly, it's not the clearest of writing, but that's what they have on their web page.

Now in other places, they say other things.

 

From the application PDF:

Your son can be a Scout if he has completed the fifth grade and is at least 10 years old or is age 11 or has earned the

Arrow of Light Award and is at least 10 years old, but has not reached age 18.

 

The first is unclear, and I would argue it allows 9 yr olds who have finished the fifth grade. The second is clear. 

Edited February 12, 2016 by perdidochas

[Krampus]

The first is unclear, and I would argue it allows 9 yr olds who have finished the fifth grade. The second is clear. 

 

The only way a 9 year old completes the fifth grade is by skipping a grade. That said, I'd be hard pressed to find anyone who thinks boy scouts is for 9 year olds.

[blw2]

oh come on everyone....

The different versions are prob. on purpose... 

So that we can just refer to the one that best fits our particular situation at the time, and then everyone is happy.

[SeattlePioneer]

Just yet another example of how BSA is so hagridden with complex administrative rules and regulations that---

 

1) volunteers can't administer the program

 

2) councils can't administer the program

 

3) BSA national can't administer the program.

 

In my opinion  ---- BSA should get rid of about 90% of its rules and regulations and get back to trusting people instead.

[Sentinel947]

Just yet another example of how BSA is so hagridden with complex administrative rules and regulations that---

 

1) volunteers can't administer the program

 

2) councils can't administer the program

 

3) BSA national can't administer the program.

 

In my opinion  ---- BSA should get rid of about 90% of its rules and regulations and get back to trusting people instead.

90%? Why not 95%. Specifics matter. What regulations would you remove? 

[TAHAWK]

Boy Scouts

Boy Scouting, one of the traditional membership divisions of the BSA, is available to boys who have earned the Arrow of Light rank and are at least 10 years old or have completed the fifth grade and are at least 10, or who are 11, but not yet 18 years old. The program achieves the BSA's objectives of developing character, citizenship, and personal fitness.

http://www.scouting.org/Home/BoyScouts.aspx

 

Boy Scouting is for boys 11 to 17 years of age. Boys also may become Boy Scouts if they have earned the Cub Scouting Arrow of Light Award and are at least 10 years old or have completed the fifth grade and are at least 10 years old.

 

http://www.scouting.org/FAQ/Parent.aspx

 

.Boy Scouting

The Boy Scout program is for boys who are 11 years old, are at least ten years old and have finished the fifth grade, or are at least ten years old and have earned the Arrow of Light rank as a Cub Scout

http://www.scouting.org/scoutsource/CubScouts/CubScouts/BeingACubScout/scouting.aspx

[qwazse]

Actually, BSA should only keep it's rules and regs.

 

http://www.scouting.org/filestore/membership/pdf/BSA_Rules_and_Regulations.pdf

Article VII. Section 2. Clause 1.

 

(d) Boy Scout—Must be under the age of 18 and

(1) have completed fifth grade and be at least 10 years old, or

(2) have earned the Arrow of Light Award and be at least 10 years old, or

(3) be age 11 or older.

 

In any case, the OP knew these boys were enrolled against regulations. Others before him may or may not have known. That's not the point. The point is how to fix the mess so the boys can continue scouting with pride. That pride certainly includes the knowledge that requirements mean something.

[SSScout]

"YOU MUST BE THIS HIGH TO GO ON THIS RIDE".

 

IF YOU DON'T HAVE TO DUCK TO PASS THIS DOOR, YOU CANNOT GO ON THIS RIDE"

 

"NO SHOES NO SHIRT NO BEER".

 

"IF I ASK FOR YOUR ID, YOU CAN FEEL PROUD OR INSULTED, MAKES NO DIFFERENCE TO ME."

[CherokeeScouter]

Hey, I'm the OP. Application was filled out correctly and honestly. The semi-new Advancement Chair says there is a prompt on the new version of TroopMaster if the age is too young, but she is not sure if earlier versions had it. 

 

And some of the posters are correct. There are three ways to join Scouts:

 

1. Be 11 years old;

2. Be 10 years old and have AOL;

3. Be 10 years old and have completed fifth grade. 

 

Since he does have AOL, his earliest join date would be 1 day after his 10th birthday. 

 

I'm not sure how you accomplish a do-over. 5-mile hike for Second Class was done when he was 9. But he got Hiking MB and did the AT when he was 10 and eligible to join. You gonna make him do a 5-mile hike when he's got the 50-miler? Same goes for First Aid. Got the MB at 10 when he was eligible to join but did Second and First Class first aid when he was 9. 

[CherokeeScouter]

No, none of the current administration knew of this. As soon as we did, we brought it to council's attention. I can't speak for the administration that was around at the time. Most are not around. 

 

And our Council signs every new application. It's on the form. 

[fred johnson]

I'm not sure how you accomplish a do-over. 

 

I wish you the best.  I agree.  I don't think there is a way for a useful, meaningful "do over".   Most things are a fresh learning experience only the first time.  Plus, we don't penalize scouts for mistakes by the adults.  My only recommendation is to make sure the timeline is long enough between the scout turning 10 (minimum eligible) and earning Eagle.  

[qwazse]

, ... Since he does have AOL, his earliest join date would be 1 day after his 10th birthday. 

 

I'm not sure how you accomplish a do-over. 5-mile hike for Second Class was done when he was 9. But he got Hiking MB and did the AT when he was 10 and eligible to join. You gonna make him do a 5-mile hike when he's got the 50-miler? Same goes for First Aid. Got the MB at 10 when he was eligible to join but did Second and First Class first aid when he was 9.

 

So, he get's awarded life at 10 years, 10 months. Follow whatever advice the council registrar and national give regarding T2F and Star date corrections.

[Krampus]

So he joined early. Do over anything done before valid join date. Starts at scout. Done.

[Sentinel947]

I wish you the best.  I agree.  I don't think there is a way for a useful, meaningful "do over".   Most things are a fresh learning experience only the first time.  Plus, we don't penalize scouts for mistakes by the adults.  My only recommendation is to make sure the timeline is long enough between the scout turning 10 (minimum eligible) and earning Eagle.  

I agree. I think remaking the scout redo requirements is the definition of pencil whipping.