Board of Review / Scoutmaster Conference time?

[Scoutmaster613]

When the boys sat for their 1st SMC I asked them about the knots, cant test them, asked what they were used for and they gave me the answer. But just watching the boys I know they don't use them or can tie them on demand.

 

SA= asst scoutmaster should be ASM, sorry (newbie, hard to learn it all)

 

The ASM is signing them off in the books, when the boys went to summer camp they went to stations. Then we got a report of what the boys did.

 

i guess I should just chat with the boys in a non-scoutmaster conference and ask them to show me the skills they learned.

[fred johnson]

Read the Guide To Advancement ....  It's the only way to find the BSA answer and the answer that the scouts expect per what they will find in their Boy Scout Handbook.  Too many people have it wrong and are too insistent that their way is right even though it will directly conflict what is documented.  Read the Guide To Advancement.

 

http://www.scouting.org/filestore/pdf/33088.pdf

 

 

A few key comments ...

 

- SMC is a friendly conversation.  It's not a test.  It's not pass or fail.  It can be 5 minutes or 30 minutes.  It's a conversation.  Read pages 122-123 in the Scoutmaster Handbook.   I know it has been updated this year and republished, but the methods are the same.

 

  http://www.bsa888.com/files/troop_888/Documents/Books%20and%20Guides/ScoutmastersHandbook2of3%20sm.pdf.  

 

- Signing off requirements .... If you want to reserve signing off on "requirements" to be done by the SM at the SMC, that's your choice.  But it's hard for the scout to know when to request advancement when things do not get progressively signed off.  The only one our SM reserves for the SMC is "scout spirit".  But even then that could be signed off when the time requirement is met.  ... But ... if requirements are signed off in his book, it's a done deal.  Move on.  If the scouts are not really learning the skills or the item, then improve on the sign-off.  But don't grow the SMC beyond a friendly conversation to take care of the poor or inappropriately signed off requirements.  

 

- How long to wait for SMC or BOR?  Ideally, it's the same night as the request.  If not then (and it can happen), then as soon as possible after that.  Larger troops can assign SMC to ASMs if necessary.  But if a scout wants to advance, support him.  If SM doesn't have time to talk with the scout, that more reflects on the SM doing too much.  

 

- Scheduling a BOR ... This is the one that gets me.  I'm slow to respond right now as I'm looking up the BSA source.  But the idea is that once the scout finishes the SMC, the ideal is the scoutmaster sets up the BOR.  It's not the scout's responsibility to request a BOR after the SMC.  It's the Scoutmaster's job to get it setup.  I'm looking for the BSA reference on that.  

Edited February 5, 2016 by fred johnson

[Krampus]

When the boys sat for their 1st SMC I asked them about the knots, cant test them, asked what they were used for and they gave me the answer. But just watching the boys I know they don't use them or can tie them on demand.

 

SA= asst scoutmaster should be ASM, sorry (newbie, hard to learn it all)

 

The ASM is signing them off in the books, when the boys went to summer camp they went to stations. Then we got a report of what the boys did.

 

i guess I should just chat with the boys in a non-scoutmaster conference and ask them to show me the skills they learned.

Sounds like a training and quality control problem. In an ideal world the PL or Instructor would sign off on demonstrated requirements.

 

Not sure why an ASM would want to push through scouts who don't know their stuff. He should be working from what you tell him you want, based on how the PLC wants the troop to run. If the ASM is going rogue then reign him in.

[fred johnson]

The ASM is signing them off in the books, when the boys went to summer camp they went to stations. Then we got a report of what the boys did.

 

We have a similar situation with our summer camp.  But unlike Webelos and Cub Scouts where we that report is pretty much accepted as it's done, that report is only informational in our troop.  Scouts sit with higher rank scouts (preferred) or an ASM who confirms they learned what they are supposed to learn.  Call it a test or a demonstrate what you learned.  That's when their books get signed off in our troop.   And to be honest, I've never seen summer camp staff ever approach signing off on a scout's book.

[fred johnson]

Sounds like a training and quality control problem. In an ideal world the PL or Instructor would sign off on demonstrated requirements.

 

Not sure why an ASM would want to push through scouts who don't know their stuff. He should be working from what you tell him you want, based on how the PLC wants the troop to run. If the ASM is going rogue then reign him in.

 

Wow.  I agree with Krampus for once.  Bad sign-offs means focus on fixing who's signing off.  IMHO, this is why I prefer troops with just a few ASMs.  It's hard to keep just a few people (SM and a few ASMs) on the same page.  Troops with 10+ or 20+ or 30+ ASMs are just all over the map.

[Stosh]

The reports we get from our summer camp staff on rank requirements are only attendance in the class.  It is not meant to be an indication that the requirement has been fulfilled.  That is up to the troop once they are home to do the testing before signing off.

[Sentinel947]

When the boys sat for their 1st SMC I asked them about the knots, cant test them, asked what they were used for and they gave me the answer. But just watching the boys I know they don't use them or can tie them on demand.

 

SA= asst scoutmaster should be ASM, sorry (newbie, hard to learn it all)

 

The ASM is signing them off in the books, when the boys went to summer camp they went to stations. Then we got a report of what the boys did.

 

i guess I should just chat with the boys in a non-scoutmaster conference and ask them to show me the skills they learned.

 

Build a program that forces the Scouts to need their scouting skills, and they will retain them.

Edited February 5, 2016 by Sentinel947

[Stosh]

Build a program that forces the Scouts to need their scouting skills, and they will retain them.

 

Had a bad wind storm come through at summer camp, took down all the wall tents in camp except 2.  The 2 remaining tents were the adult tents.  I was a good gentleman and set up the female ASM's tent for her along with mine.

 

Boys all set up their tents but they relied on the stupid wood tighteners that all gave way in the wind storm.  Took down the 2 dining flies, but one was still standing... yep, the adult fly. 

 

The PL came over to the adult area and asked for some help all the tents went down in the storm.   It was still raining, so I got up and took him over to my tent and asked him why my tent as still standing.  He looked for the longest time and then finally said, you tied everything with knots.  Yep.  Then I said, "would you like me to come over and teach the boys to tie the knows that they are supposed to know how to tie?"  He looked at me and said, "That'll be a good start."  Twice more that week, I saw the PL over with the boys practicing their knots as a patrol.     It's amazing what a little incentive will do for the program.

[qwazse]

I'm sorry if I implied that your SMC should be a retest. But it sounds like you have your doubts about how some boys got their sign-offs. You should find a way to express what you expect from boys before they sign off.

 

It's a new year. Your boys need to elect who among them they think will help train and vouch for every 6-8 of them. These boys will have to be the most trustworthy and helpful (or become that way real fast). So, it's time to choose wisely.

 

No longer should you accept adult sign-offs, camp staff sign offs, time lord or other super-sentiment life form sign offs for scout skills. If it's not a PL's signature in the handbook, it doesn't count.

 

Train your PLs to only accept demonstration the week after they teach the skill. If it's a knot they havent mastered themselves they can practice it together and demonstrate it.

 

Any scout who feels upset that they have to recertifying with their PL can simply demonstrate all the skills he should have mastered right before starting his conference with you.

[Krampus]

I'm sorry if I implied that your SMC should be a retest. But it sounds like you have your doubts about how some boys got their sign-offs. You should find a way to express what you expect from boys before they sign off.

 

 

This is where EDGE comes in. 

 

Our unit took a while to implement it, but we built a program where the T-FC program (meets 1-2 times/month) mapped to the unit calendar so that skills being taught in T-FC were built in to the games or skills being done by the unit as a whole. For example, if T-FC was doing knots, the unit's meeting would be pioneering projects for that month. This way the T-FC Scouts had to learn, show and teach their knots during T-FC *AND* during the Scout meeting.

 

The Instructors don't sign off until these guys can demonstrate that they really KNOW these skills.

[Stosh]

We have always used the premise that the boys need teach each skill to another person as the way to demonstrate their knowledge.  One of the first things each boy does when he comes into the troop is learn how to teach.  It's a 5 minute process and it works.  It's surprising how many boys eventually catch on it's nothing more than a modified EDGE approach. 

[qwazse]

We have always used the premise that the boys need teach each skill to another person as the way to demonstrate their knowledge.  One of the first things each boy does when he comes into the troop is learn how to teach.  It's a 5 minute process and it works.  It's surprising how many boys eventually catch on it's nothing more than a modified EDGE approach. 

{begin rant} You say "modified", I say abandoned . .... Reference, Learn, Do, Teach -- what a great way to master a skill! Doesn't need an acronym. Makes sense. Easily translated into any known language. {rant over}

 

Anyway, Ed, one more idea, while you still have a relatively small group of boys to work with ... when you talk about how you want things to operate, I find it's best to get every scout sat in a circle. No tables or desks or other scouts to hide behind. Just the them and the SM on the same level. You could:

• Apologize that you're in a bind with the backlog of conferences that you'd like to have with the scouts. (Sure, it's not not your fault.)
• Say you're going to catch up, but you want to start conferencing with the scouts who everyone agrees are most sure they are ready for the rank they will be awarded.
• Pass a rope around and give each boy a chance to tie a knot that you think they should know. Or orient a map or set a compass bearing. Or some other skill.
• If a boy isn't confident that he can do the skill, ask him to get help from the scout beside him. If that scout isn't sure, ask him move beside a scout who he knows can help him.
• Hopefully, this will identify the boy(s) who everyone knows has mastered the skills commensurate with his next rank. That's who will get the next SMC for rank advancement.
• Don't be negative. Just point out that they earn a rank when they know each skill well enough that other scouts trust them to be their teachers.
• Ask them what they think should be done a bout a signature in the book if a scout can't teach the skills he was signed off on.

These are just some ideas. You know your boys better than we do. But often times, the way we allow meetings to run creates a "distance" that boys hide behind. Try to reduce that distance until the boys have their own smaller patrols with leaders whom they identified could help them go hiking and camping independently.

[Eagle94-A1]

i prefer the old Show, Tell, Do method of instruction. But I think the acronym is not Scout friendly.

[Torchwood]

Qwazse has a great idea- not just for learning skills, but also as an open forum on how you are doing as a Troop. I would also remind you of one more item- T21 can be worked on concurrently, so there is no reason that the boys should hold up their advancement while waiting for a SMC or BOR to happen.

[John-in-KC]

I have to agree with the others.  If Troop meetings are being cancelled for the benefit of the adults, your Troop needs to reorder its priorities.

 

I also think the ASM asking for Scoutmaster Conferences is dead wrong.  It should be the boys asking.  It seems to me we have an issue of an "adult leadership method" troop here.

 

I like the idea of the Committee being available on a campout to provide BORs, just as you could be available to do SMCs.  Amazing what happens when you sit back in a camp chair and watch the world go by, while you help the kid make a S'more on your little campfire