Board of Review / Scoutmaster Conference time?

[Scoutmaster613]

OK, newbie scoutmaster with a start up troop so please excuse my lack of knowledge.

 

How soon should a BOR be completed. I have a ASM wanting me to pretty much drop what I am doing and complete these ASAP.

 

He canceled our last 4 troop meetings all due to football and weather (Carolina Panthers as he is a season ticket holder.)

 

The other fathers were OK with it as they watch as well and I am cool with it as well but at the same time I have plans.

 

But now football is going to be over and he wants me to complete all 12 boys scoutmaster conference ASAP and schedule a BOR.

 

As I read section 8.0.0.1 it says to complete ASAP.

 

BUT it also says " Scouts are not delayed in beginning time-oriented requirements for the next rank."

 

They are only going from Tenderfoot to 2nd Class

 

8.0.0.1 Purpose and Timeliness of Boards of Review

After a Scout has completed the requirements for any rank or Eagle Palm, he appears before a board of review. Its purpose is to determine the quality of his experience and decide whether he has fulfilled the requirements for the rank. If so, the board not only approves his advancement or Palm but also encourages him to continue the quest for the next rank or Palm. Because the board of review date becomes the effective advancement date, boards should be scheduled promptly as Scouts are ready, or set up on a regular basis that assures Scouts are not delayed in beginning time-oriented requirements for the next rank.

My thoughts are to get these done in the next 30 days, not all in 1 day,

 

Please chime in. Thanks

[scoutldr]

An ASM has the authority to cancel troop meetings to watch football?  I think you have bigger problems.

[gumbymaster]

I've seen a lot of differing opinions and implementations on these ...

 

- Some Scoutmasters will wait (even indefinitely) for the Scout to request a conference and then to at that time arrange and schedule it at a time available to both the Scout and SM.

- Sometimes these are before/after a troop meeting (although my Son's troop's SM discourages this)

- Sometimes they are while on a camp-out

- Sometimes they have been before/after a merit badge workshop (as in Mr. Smith demonstrating woodwork tools for some of the scouts in the troop learning that merit badge).

- Usually they are scheduled for a weekend.  Often in 30 min. increments before the next Scout shows up for theirs.

- Sometimes they use ASMs to hold some of the conferences, especially for the SM's kids.

 

As for the boards of review, If you have several Scouts ready, these are easier to set up all at once, as it is sometimes hard to get three or more committee members and/or parents scheduled for the same time.  Before or after a committee meeting is a great time.  Again, set them up back to back, if you have too many scouts, have two boards of review running at once (in different rooms).  My Son's troop tries very hard to never make a Scout wait more than 30 days, usually less than 14.

 

As for the Boards of review themselves, my Son's troop gives the parents or committee members a handout with the requirements for the rank, a printout of the Scouts' awards and achievements (should mirror the Scout's handbook), and a page of BoR instructions (i.e. not a retest of the Scout's skills) with a list of sample questions that could be asked of the scout, appropriate to each rank.  It helps new parents really get a feel for the scope of the BoR.

[Krampus]

An ASM has the authority to cancel troop meetings to watch football?  I think you have bigger problems.

 

My thought exactly! That's the SM's call, not the ASM. Maybe if he didn't cancel so many meetings there wouldn't be the need to have 12 "ASAP" Scoutmaster conferences. I sure as heck would make him take half of them (with another leader) so as to split up the workload.

 

In my unit we do this:

• Scouts request the SMCs, not mom or dad but the Scouts.
• The SM or ASM will sit down (two deep) and conduct the SMC. We try to do them within one week of the request. We don't like to take meeting time to do them so we usually do them 30-60 mins before the meeting.
• After the SMC we hand the Scout a sheet of paper that shows them how to:
  • Request the BOR.
  • Send in the updated pages of their book so that they are recorded in TroopMaster.
  • How to prepared for the BOR (we cover this in the SMC but we give them sheet to take with them).
• Our advancement coordinator usually tries to schedule the BORs within a week or so of the SMC. These do happen during the meeting. If we have a large number then sometimes we have 2-3 boards going at one time (all with trained folks conducting the BOR).

All that said, if I have been too busy and not able to get an SMC done, I have been known to meet a Scout (and parent) at a coffee shop or donut place and hold an SMC. This is usually if I have been travelling and I have made the Scout wait longer than I like. My *personal* feeling is that Scouts should not wait more than two weeks for an SMC *unless* the volume is such that it delays their conference.

[Scoutmaster613]

An ASM has the authority to cancel troop meetings to watch football?  I think you have bigger problems.

yeah, exactly, 

 

 

but at the same time we meet sunday nights so I get it.

[Scoutmaster613]

My thought exactly! That's the SM's call, not the ASM. Maybe if he didn't cancel so many meetings there wouldn't be the need to have 12 "ASAP" Scoutmaster conferences. I sure as heck would make him take half of them (with another leader) so as to split up the workload.

 

I don't want the SA from the Patrol to sit in with a SMC (scout master conference) with one of his own kids or hold his own. The SA I feel is rushing his kids and they are not learning the skills. I doubt half of them could not tie the double half and taut line knots and I know I am not supposed to retest them.

 

For the 1st SMC half the boys did not know who the asst patrol leader is, they did not have a patrol cheer (and that's required per the book) they could not answer a few of the requirements when they went to summer camp and did some "rank express" program.

 

Its like they did a 1-2 hour hands on with a few knots and moved on. the kids did not retain anything and to me that's more of the cub scout program. In Boy Scouts I feel the boys should learn and retain things especially knots and other skills they plan on using in camp outs. 

[qwazse]

Steelers fan here. So I get how we have to make adjustments for such things. (And kinda wishing I was in a similar bind )

 

But this one is so simple.

 

Arrange for 3 committee members to come camping with you all on your next overnight. Boys who have been waiting for SMCs and BoRs may request them that weekend, and you will schedule them throughout the day.

 

Scouts not attending the campout may schedule SMCs and BoRs during the standard time available at your regular meetings on a first-come, first-serve basis.

 

If you don't mind setting aside liquor and cigars, you all could also schedule a Superbowl party with the scouts.

 

Oh, and congratulations to the boys for getting so much work done in the off-season.

Edited February 4, 2016 by qwazse

[qwazse]

I don't want the SA from the Patrol to sit in with a SMC (scout master conference) with one of his own kids or hold his own. The SA I feel is rushing his kids and they are not learning the skills. I doubt half of them could not tie the double half and taut line knots and I know I am not supposed to retest them.

 

For the 1st SMC half the boys did not know who the asst patrol leader is, they did not have a patrol cheer (and that's required per the book) they could not answer a few of the requirements when they went to summer camp and did some "rank express" program.

 

Its like they did a 1-2 hour hands on with a few knots and moved on. the kids did not retain anything and to me that's more of the cub scout program. In Boy Scouts I feel the boys should learn and retain things especially knots and other skills they plan on using in camp outs. 

 

I think it is pretty important for the SM to handle those T2F rank conferences. It's your best chance to touch base with each boy as he's growing.

Your previous experience is all the more reason to have the conferences where a kid can go back and master the skill. Campouts are ideal for that sort of thing. Meeting, not so much. The boys need to know that their conference is not complete if they haven't mastered the skills.

[Scoutmaster613]

Steelers fan here. So I get how we have to make adjustments for such things. (And kinda wishing I was in a similar bind )

 

But this one is so simple.

 

Arrange for 3 committee members to come camping with you all on your next overnight. Boys who have been waiting for SMCs and BoRs may request them that weekend, and you will schedule them throughout the day.

 

Scouts not attending the campout may schedule SMCs and BoRs during the standard time available at your regular meetings on a first-come, first-serve basis.

 

If you don't mind setting aside liquor and cigars, you all could also schedule a Superbowl party with the scouts.

 

Oh, and congratulations to the boys for getting so much work done in the off-season.

 

 

Yes, I have usually done these on our campouts with the older boys. For some reason the SA thinks they need to be done when the scouts complete every item for their rank, NO, they just need to be close to it.

[Scoutmaster613]

The boys need to know that their conference is not complete if they haven't mastered the skills.

 

But per the rules I am not allowed to retest or fail.

 

I just dont think they are ready and they are rushed through.

 

When me and our other leader taught the Taut, Double Half Hitch and other knots we did it over several patrol meetings. we would start with the pledge, oath and other stuff, then do some quick knot races then start our meetings.

 

These guys did a fast hands on at camp and thats the last time they touched a rope!

[Torchwood]

1. The wrong person is trying to lead the Troop- you are the Scoutmaster, and he serves as ASM at YOUR pleasure.

 

2. If you are teaching all the skills to all the Scouts, you are doing it wrong. Teach the SPL or PL (depending on the size of your Troop), and then let the boy lead and teach the other boys.

 

3. You can't retest them, but you can tell them that you feel that they are not ready to advance (you know, being trustworthy and helpful). A SMC is not just for advancement, they can happen for any number of reasons, including just checking in with the boys to see how they are doing, and how you are doing too. Taht being said, if the book is signed off (and who is doing the book signing?), then your hands are kind of tied. I agree with qwazse that you should do the T21 SMCs yourself, even if you have to spread them out over a couple of nights.

 

4. Ask your ASM just how good a Scout Troop he wants to be associated with. His answer should guide you about his motives and committment to either the BSA program or just pencil whipping the boys (likely mostly his own) to a fsat finish. FWIW, my son earned Life a couple of months shy of his 14th Birthday, but not one item of his advancment has been signed off by me (I am an ASM), nor have I had to push him to finish anything. He is a PL right now, but all of his Rank advancement was signed off by his previous PLs, and when he is ready for a SMC or BOR, he makes those arrangements himself (the Troop holds BORs during the last Troop meeting of each month). That is part of the Adult Association method.

 

5. Just a question, but have you and this ASM taken Scoutmaster Training? A well run SM Basic is an enlightening experience for a lot of Leaders, and I highly reccommend it, even for Committee members (and the CC, of course).

[Scoutmaster613]

1. The wrong person is trying to lead the Troop- you are the Scoutmaster, and he serves as ASM at YOUR pleasure.

 

2. If you are teaching all the skills to all the Scouts, you are doing it wrong. Teach the SPL or PL (depending on the size of your Troop), and then let the boy lead and teach the other boys.

 

3. You can't retest them, but you can tell them that you feel that they are not ready to advance (you know, being trustworthy and helpful). A SMC is not just for advancement, they can happen for any number of reasons, including just checking in with the boys to see how they are doing, and how you are doing too. Taht being said, if the book is signed off (and who is doing the book signing?), then your hands are kind of tied. I agree with qwazse that you should do the T21 SMCs yourself, even if you have to spread them out over a couple of nights.

 

4. Ask your ASM just how good a Scout Troop he wants to be associated with. His answer should guide you about his motives and committment to either the BSA program or just pencil whipping the boys (likely mostly his own) to a fsat finish. FWIW, my son earned Life a couple of months shy of his 14th Birthday, but not one item of his advancment has been signed off by me (I am an ASM), nor have I had to push him to finish anything. He is a PL right now, but all of his Rank advancement was signed off by his previous PLs, and when he is ready for a SMC or BOR, he makes those arrangements himself (the Troop holds BORs during the last Troop meeting of each month). That is part of the Adult Association method.

 

5. Just a question, but have you and this ASM taken Scoutmaster Training? A well run SM Basic is an enlightening experience for a lot of Leaders, and I highly reccommend it, even for Committee members (and the CC, of course).

 

Thanks Torch, one of the big problems is with us, we are a starter troop. So not many older scouts to have help with these. We have had our struggles. Our first year was just 5 new scouts. So it was like Weblos 3, and 4.... The boys are getting much better.

 

I dont think they are signing off in the books, we use Scoutbook.com and mark off the website once they complete a meeting.

 

Yes we have all completed SM and ASM training. IOLS. I am just missing Woodbadge. 

 

Thanks for the input.

[fred johnson]

Mr Ed T24 ... More comments to come but ... SMC does not have to be the last step.   It's just a conversation.  Five minutes to 30 minutes.  What ever the conversation is and you and he want to discuss.  It's not about completing or reviewing requirements.

[Krampus]

I don't want the SA from the Patrol to sit in with a SMC (scout master conference) with one of his own kids or hold his own. The SA I feel is rushing his kids and they are not learning the skills. I doubt half of them could not tie the double half and taut line knots and I know I am not supposed to retest them.

 

 

Don't sign off on the skill until it is passed.

 

SA? Scout Advisors?

 

In my unit, part of "participating in an SMC" means demonstrating your core scouting skills. If you can't you come back. How can you participate in anything (class, sports, scouts) if you didn't do your homework?

 

For the 1st SMC half the boys did not know who the asst patrol leader is, they did not have a patrol cheer (and that's required per the book) they could not answer a few of the requirements when they went to summer camp and did some "rank express" program.

Again, then don't sign off until they KNOW it. Use the EDGE method. When those boys can TEACH the skill, they've mastered it.

 

Its like they did a 1-2 hour hands on with a few knots and moved on. the kids did not retain anything and to me that's more of the cub scout program. In Boy Scouts I feel the boys should learn and retain things especially knots and other skills they plan on using in camp outs.

Yup. Sounds like no one used EDGE.

 

Who is teaching classes? Who is signing off on things? Sounds like THAT is where the problem is.

[Stosh]

I'm kinda lost with this conversation.

 

What does one do for 30 minutes during a SMC? 

If the requirements aren't being met, SMC or BOR isn't going to solve that problem.

 

Basically I use the SMC near the end to review with the boy his accomplishments since his last rank advancement.  Basically asking him if he thinks he's ready for the BOR and give him an opportunity to ask any questions of me before the BOR.

 

I never retest the boys, but I do have the right to ask questions.  For example.  It says here in the book that you learned how to tie the taunt-line hitch.  Is that true?  It says here you made meals for your patrol for a weekend.  Is that true?  If one does this at every SMC for a couple of the requirements, the boys will know that each time such questions will arise.  I have had "feedback" over the years during training sessions and have had the teachers tell the new kids, they had better learn this because if they don't they will have to lie to Mr.Stosh at their SMC.