Leadership vs. Management

[TAHAWK]

From TAHAWK:

 

"The OA lodge in my oldest council was about dead.  One recent year, it had no - 0 - activities.  Then the lodge got a new Lodge Adviser and a very impressive Lodge Chief.  Like flipping a switch, the Lodge came to life.  Leadership is once more proved to be the "magic" ingredient."

 

Was that leadership or management in your opinion.

 

Barry

 

It was a demonstration of the ability to convince others that they support a vision of an active service organization.  What you call it is not as important as what is going on.  I would prefer "leadership," but "pickles" would work as well IF the same behavior was displayed.

[Eagledad]

Sadly we've come to the place where we are afraid to call leadership, leadership. Scouting is doomed.

 

Barry

[Stosh]

There are a few scouters out there that would agree with that.

[Stosh]

From TAHAWK:

 

"The OA lodge in my oldest council was about dead.  One recent year, it had no - 0 - activities.  Then the lodge got a new Lodge Adviser and a very impressive Lodge Chief.  Like flipping a switch, the Lodge came to life.  Leadership is once more proved to be the "magic" ingredient."

 

Was that leadership or management in your opinion.

 

Barry

 

We had a restaurant go out of business in town, got a new owner and reopened.  Out of curiosity I went and tried out their food.  The interesting thing was, the food was pretty good but the service wasn't, the sign in the window said, "Under new management."  I'll probably not go back, I wasn't convinced it wasn't any better than the old place.  Maybe if the service was better I'd reconsider.

[fred johnson]

Too long a chain to read everything.  But I agree with the original post.  I think we need to create leaders who inspire the scouts to be better, achieve more and do more.  I've had my fill of MBA forms based scouting and worksheet merit badges.  At this point, I've reverted into thinking scouting is a very simple program.  Get out and have adventures.  Maybe it's a canoe trip or a simple hike to a fire tower.  By doing interesting things and our offering friendly coaching, support and a smile, the scouts will develop leadership as a natural part of completing the adventures.

[Stosh]

Please explain what is meant by "develop leadership as a natural part of completing the adventures."  It seems to me that the scout will develop management skills as part of completing the tasks of adventures.  Organizing the activity, preparation and finally the doing of the actual task at hand.  I see people coming to these events more as self-entertainment rather than actually all that worried about leading anyone.

[fred johnson]

Please explain what is meant by "develop leadership as a natural part of completing the adventures."  It seems to me that the scout will develop management skills as part of completing the tasks of adventures.  Organizing the activity, preparation and finally the doing of the actual task at hand.  I see people coming to these events more as self-entertainment rather than actually all that worried about leading anyone.

 

What I meant is that by doing things and having adventures, certain scouts begin to stand out and learn the confidence to call others out on things or to inspire the group to do more or to get going or to move forward.  The "management" of the activity is the easy part.  Getting kids to stand up with strong character, do more than originally planned, helping each other and lifting the group to the next performance level.  

 

One of the proudest moments recently is when I was guiding / helping a few new scouts of another troop who were struggling at a district camp out.  The SPL from our troop popped over to let us know the troop was setup and asked if there was anything else right they could do.  I asked if he could find a couple of older scouts to help out these new scouts.  He grabbed a few more older scouts and helped these younger scouts and few others ... not even scouts from our troop.  Without him there to break the inertia of being done, I don't think the older scouts would have reached out to help these guys. 

 

IMHO, it's very much like some of the comments I took time to read above.  Leadership reflects authority that is given by those below.  Management is authority granted from above.  That SPL had earned his reputation and respect from the other older scouts.  When he said they'd help, the other scouts followed without argument. 

 

We had another SPL like that.  Very well respected and when he spoke, others followed.  No threats or warnings.  The scouts liked and respected him.

Edited February 4, 2016 by fred johnson

[Stosh]

What I meant is that by doing things and having adventures, certain scouts begin to stand out and learn the confidence to call others out on things or to inspire the group to do more or to get going or to move forward.  The "management" of the activity is the easy part.  Getting kids to stand up with strong character, do more than originally planned, helping each other and lifting the group to the next performance level.  

 

One of the proudest moments recently is when I was guiding / helping a few new scouts of another troop who were struggling at a district camp out.  The SPL from our troop popped over to let us know the troop was setup and asked if there was anything else right they could do.  I asked if he could find a couple of older scouts to help out these new scouts.  He grabbed a few more older scouts and helped these younger scouts and few others ... not even scouts from our troop.  Without him there to break the inertia of being done, I don't think the older scouts would have reached out to help these guys. 

 

IMHO, it's very much like some of the comments I took time to read above.  Leadership reflects authority that is given by those below.  Management is authority granted from above.  That SPL had earned his reputation and respect from the other older scouts.  When he said they'd help, the other scouts followed without argument. 

 

We had another SPL like that.  Very well respected and when he spoke, others followed.  No threats or warnings.  The scouts liked and respected him.

 

Yes, but, Fred you have identified servant leadership.  Note the non-management highlights above, They all are clear indicators of servant leadership that makes it work for you and your boys.  If that process was cultured so as to infect the whole troop, you'd be out of a job and the boys would set the world on fire!