Patrol Method with a very young troop

[Cambridgeskip]

Given that the patrol method is perhaps that bit stronger in the USA than this side of the pond I thought I would pick some American brains (also because I’m typing this from work and our work network has suddenly decided I can look but not post on Escouts, the UK equivalent of this forum!)

 

The scout section in the UK is younger than for you, running aged 10-14. 14 is the standard move on age to explorers (14-18). They can stay at scouts till they are 14 years and 6 months, and in practice more chose to do this than go straight at 14, at 14.6 though we have to kick them out to explorers! Hence we can’t give our PLs quite as much responsibility as you do and it generally needs that bit more adult input to make sure PLs councils happen, that they come up with workable and affordable programmes and that camps run smoothly and safely. That’s not to say that PLs don’t take responsibility, it just takes that bit more input, training and nurturing. With that in mind….

 

I’m about to go from having quite an old troop (in UK terms) to being quite a young one. As things stand I have 31 on the books with 9 of them either 14 or just about to turn 14 with all of them heading off to explorers by early April.

 

Allowing for those moving up from cubs after Easter I am expecting a troop of around 28 which looks like 4 patrols to me. My age profile will be;

 

3 x 13 year olds. Of whom one is brand new to scouting.

9 x 12 year olds. Of Whom 2 are brand new to scouting. 2 will only just be 12 and 1 is an intermittent attendee.

The rest will be aged 10 or 11.

 

It’s the youngest age profile I will have had while running the scout section. I have no problem with a program appropriate to their age and experience. What I am pondering is how successfully the patrol system can run with that age profile and what I can do to help it run smoothly.

 

No particular question in mind other than thoughts or ideas?

 

 

[Eagle94-A1]

MIX THEM UP!

 

Seriously have them mix themselves up. Do not put all the new Scouts. My troop has done that, and it has been a chaotic nightmare.  I have been posting about my experiences, and will be venting shortly about last night's mess.

 

Wish you could keep some of the 14 year olds to provide mentoring ops for them.

[Sentinel947]

I'll piggy back on Eagle94. Scouts that are all very young have a hard time leading themselves. They need an older scout or two to mentor them and help them learn the skills they need to be successful in the outdoors. The challenge is to not just split up the younger scouts. They want to be with their friends. To say "Well they need to make new friends." Doesn't understand the mind of a 11 year old.

 

​Let them make their own patrols, try to have some of the older guys join the youngest scouts and leaders and trainers.

[qwazse]

Our newly merged troop is basically that. The older scouts are effectively their own patrol.

All of the elected patrol leaders were 12 or 13. So even if there is an older boy, he tries to keep mum to give the PL a chance to shine.

 

It looks like the Webelos den will crossover as a new scout patrol. Mainly because there's a couple of those 13 year olds who might like to try their hand at guiding them.

 

You have the nuance of both sexes being in the troop. I don't know if that makes letting the kids settle their arrangement any easier or harder.

 

Might be a good idea to invite some of your soon-to-be-explorers out for lunch and have them remind you what it was like coming up. They might have some stories of things that were formative for them that you didn't notice at the time. It's best to learn from the experts.

[Stosh]

Cambridge,

 

I'm going to sing the same old song because it does work for me and it might be another option for you to consider.

 

First of all I would suggest the youth themselves determine their own 6-8 member groupings of which they select one or two to be their PL/APL (or equivalent in the UK).  Rudimentary training of "Take care of your people" for all those leaders.

 

I also treat all my boys as adults.  I reinforce this by referring to them by title and surname.  I expect the same respect in return. 

 

I have only 3 rules:

1) Safety first

2) Look and act like a scout

3) Have fun

 

With that said, I would sit back and watch what happens and evaluate how your youth react to the situation you have created.  If they come for advice, always make sure they have the option of taking ownership of the solution.  One never wants them to go back to their group and say, "Mr. Cambridgeship told us to do it this way."  Instead one is working towards the kids going back and presenting, "Mr. Cambridgship suggested we look at the possibility of.... what does everyone think?"

 

Last but not least is the issue addressed first.  You have younger kids.  It makes no never mind.  Treat them as if they are the 14-18 year old Explorers.  I have found over the years that kids have a tendency to step up in maturity quicker when given the opportunity to do so.  It's kind of like the self-fulfilling prophesy dynamic of psychology.  If you treat them like children they will act like children.  If you treat them like adults, they will step up.  This, after 40 years of working with kids, has been proven to me over and over again as true.

Edited January 26, 2016 by Stosh

[blw2]

My comments come as more theoretical mind you, since I myself am just stepping into a troop from Cubs

But your post makes me think of the book I read a while back,So far So Good, A new Scoutmaster's Story( http://scoutmastercg.com/get-clarkes-books/)

 

The story isn't exactly about your situation or question, but the take away I got from it was more or less this:

 

Point the scouts in the right direction and let them run with it.

Let them know that their Scout handbook is their "Rule Book" or "directions" for everything for the game. 

Give the scouts the baseline, maybe expectation.... as in let them know they are in charge, explain the patrol concept and the 6-8 member suggestion.  Ask them to figure out how they want to split up their patrols, and then each patrol will elect their patrol leader, and the patrol leader will select his Assistant.

The way I'm thinking, it's not to give them basic direction then leave the room... but instead to participate in the meeting, guide them, asking them questions to get them to think about stuff from a different angle, etc...Encourage them to look things up in their rule book when they have questions, etc...

 

You're only losing 9 out of 31 so even though they might be young, a bunch of them have still been around a while, right?

 

So then, maybe this whole thing starts with the troop electing a SPL.  Then during the meeting that SPL becomes the ultimate decision maker.

 

I know this is probably too simplistic and theoretical, but the thought process seems sound to me.  And Stosh's experience seems to indicate that they can handle it.

 

Oh, and I like qwazse's suggestion to talk with your 14 year olds for input.  Might be very informative!

[Cambridgeskip]

MIX THEM UP!

 

Seriously have them mix themselves up. Do not put all the new Scouts. My troop has done that, and it has been a chaotic nightmare.  I have been posting about my experiences, and will be venting shortly about last night's mess.

 

Wish you could keep some of the 14 year olds to provide mentoring ops for them.

 

We can, sort of.

 

We have something called the Young Leader scheme whereby Explorer Scouts can effectively become apprentice adult leaders with Beavers, Cubs or Scouts. With scouts though they are specifically not meant to act like a PL or SPL. It is about training them to be adult leaders when they turn 18. I currently have 3, aged 17, 16 and 15. It is recommended that there are no more than 3 with any given colony/pack/troop.

[MattR]

The issue I see is all the PLs will likely be inexperienced. That's expected at that age. There are a few things I can think of that will help those PLs. First is train each entire patrol in what a patrol is, what it does, and what the leader does. It will be easier on the leader to have scouts that know what teamwork is. Also, if a PL is struggling someone may just help him, or maybe a scout with natural leadership just steps up. With everyone the same age and young, things might be very fluid, which can be good.

 

Second, smaller patrols are easier for a new leader to manage than bigger patrols. We don't make ad hoc patrols if numbers are down at a campout and the overwhelming response from the scouts is they like it. If there are only 4 scouts in a patrol and they have the faintest idea what teamwork is about then they work together fantastically. Everyone knows they have to help out and there are plenty of jobs to do. Eight scouts is a lot to cook for and a lot of personalities for a young PL to deal with. Four is easy, but not all four will show up every time. Six?

 

Finally, the new PLs will need more time outside of working with their patrols to talk to someone with experience. I'd say work any planning those scouts need to do into the calendar. They tend to struggle with focus, at least the boys do, and the more you talk to them the better.

[blw2]

.... We don't make ad hoc patrols if numbers are down at a campout and the overwhelming response from the scouts is they like it. ....

sort of a side track point here

but the idea this practice just seems to scream to me that it will derail a patrol.  Interesting to read that you don't do that.... makes total sense to me

but

what do you do if only 1 or 2 boys from a given patrol sign up for a trip?

I'm inclined to think that with 2 or more the patrol should stick together.

but with only one from a  patrol, I'm a bit puzzled.

I suppose let him then tag along with another patrol.... is that what you do?

[MattR]

Yep. 3 scouts - stay as a patrol. 2 scouts - their choice, but they are visiting the other patrol and the patrol must have room. 1 scout - find a patrol, they must have room, you're visiting.

[fred johnson]

What I am pondering is how successfully the patrol system can run with that age profile and what I can do to help it run smoothly.

 

As with all things, helping it run smooth is simple coaching and friendly questioning.  "How did that work for you?" ... "What's your plan?" ... "What do you need to do next?"

 

As with structuring patrols, let them choose.  And by "them", I mean the individual scouts.  Let them choose which patrols they will be in.  My experience is this is how it works best.  Scoutmaster or SPL assigning patrols just does not get ownership of the patrols.  Scout need to want to be with their patrol.  The only effective way is to let them choose.  

 

If you end up with a patrol of 10 year olds, fine.  You do the same as any other situation.  Coach and mentor.  

[qwazse]

We can, sort of.

 

We have something called the Young Leader scheme whereby Explorer Scouts can effectively become apprentice adult leaders with Beavers, Cubs or Scouts. With scouts though they are specifically not meant to act like a PL or SPL. It is about training them to be adult leaders when they turn 18. I currently have 3, aged 17, 16 and 15. It is recommended that there are no more than 3 with any given colony/pack/troop.

It sounds like your Young Leaders are Junior Assistant Scoutmasters (or cubmasters or den leaders), a.k.a. JASM. It was a huge deal to achieve this position in my youth.

 

On this side of the pond, in recent years, the value of the position is often questioned (see http://scouter.com/index.php/topic/25960-pros-and-cons-of-the-junior-assistant-scoutmaster-position/).

I think that is because

• troops have accumulated so many adult assistant scoutmasters (and packs, cubmasters and den leaders) that they "muscle out" the youth who would fill this gap.
• the "Instructor" position specifically defines what we'd expect from most older youth.
• there are Venturing crews to found, O/A chapters to facilitate, and a profusion of other opportunities for that age group under the scouting umbrella. There is no JASM corps.

Edited January 26, 2016 by qwazse

[Stosh]

JASM's in our area tend to be retired Eagles who have yet to age out.  They basically have nothing to do and they tend to do it well.

[Eagle94-A1]

Despite all of my lamenting with my current troop's situation, I've seen young Scouts step up to the plate. I've seen 11, 12, and 13 year olds doing VERY well as PL. I saw an 11 year old do a decent job as SPL. Yes that shocked me.

 

My advice, find some old William "Green Bar Bill" Hillcourt literature. I do not know how well known Billis in the UK, but he was extremely influential int eh BSA up until 1967 or 68 when he retired. Then when BSA changes the Scouting program in 1972, Bill came out of retirement in 1978 to fix the problem.

 

Where BP founded Scouting, Bill took what BP and others did, expanded upon it. He experimented with a troop to try his ideas and write it down.

[Stosh]

Despite all of my lamenting with my current troop's situation, I've seen young Scouts step up to the plate. I've seen 11, 12, and 13 year olds doing VERY well as PL. I saw an 11 year old do a decent job as SPL. Yes that shocked me.

and this from the guy who hates NSP's?  You've been drinkin' the Koolaid haven't cha?

 

I get this kind of thing out of my new boys all the time.  Maybe this is why my NSP's are working for me.

 

Never underestimate the boys they really are young adults in more ways than us old people give them credit for.

 

My advice, Cambridge, run your 10-14 year olds like the 14-18 year olds run their program.  That is pretty much the span of scouts here.  I get a lot out of my young boys, they have the most energy and have something to prove.