Scout 'credits' transfer

[singlemomhelppls]

Basic background. My son is currently a Tenderfoot. He starting scouting in first grade and was with the same pack since being a Tiger. He completed his arrow of Life and crossed over to the troop at the same charter organization. In the pack we had one fundraiser, popcorn, of which each boy earns credits of 50% of the units profits to be used towards scouting related activities and purchases. The troop has more a few more fundraisers in addition to popcorn but popcorn is still a big fundraiser and the boys received 75% of the units profits in credits. Credits were allowed to carry over from pack to troop, keep in mind this is not being identified as a ISA. As a cub he has no issues and went to every meeting and outing with joy. With in months of crossing over to troop he started to have issues which I understand is normal but it became to the point he did not want to go on outing or to meetings. I became concerned with the Boy Lead leadership as I did not feel the boys were really leading and helping my son continue with scouts. It was to the point my son wanted to stop scouts all together and I did not want to walk away from 5+ years of scouting so we started looking for a new troop. He selected the new troop and we have transferred, I requested from the old unit that the credits be transferred to the new troop to assist him in continuing scouting. I asked for a check to be cut directly to the new troop not to me personally, I even asked for just a portion of the funds but I've been told no. I have found other local troops that would and do transfer the funds and have provided this information to the unit but they are not allowing it. It is my understanding that BSA and the local council will not step in on this. I just want some(would like at least half) of the funds my son has earned so that he can earn his own way. His credits are solely from his efforts in fundraisers and no one else. The unit has received a portion of the funds from his efforts already. I am told the unit has no written by-laws.

[resqman]

The troop is under no obligation to transfer any credits to anyone, anytime, anywhere.  The money technically is owned by the sponsoring organization not the troop. 

 

While I understand your perceived right to some portion of the money/credits, it doesn't work that way.  Let it go.  You will only cause yourself heartache.  The money will go to help fund scouting, just not your son.

[Stosh]

First of all welcome to the forum.

 

Secondly I think resqman is correct.  One of the major problems with the "ISA" issue is that somehow there seems to be this idea that these "credit" funds somehow belong to the boy.  If that's the idea one has received, it is simply not true for reasons resqman has identified.  This is the #1 reason my troop does not do ISA's is because I do not want anyone to ever get the idea that there is a single penny in the troop's finances that somehow in any way shape or form "belongs" to them.  It never was and is not now the boys' money.

 

I would suggest that if your son is interested in having funds available to him for his scouting career, he seek "fund raising" opportunities outside of scouting, i.e. raking leaves, shoveling snow, doing odd jobs, running errands, etc.   There is nothing in the rule book that says a scout can't let the customer know up front that he is earning money for his scout trips, summer camp, equipment, etc.  If one looks at the old scout handbooks, this is how it is recommended for the boy to be Thrifty.  As a matter of fact I believe it a Tenderfoot requirement to open a bank account and seed it with a certain amount of cash at one time.

 

A scout pays his own way, he doesn't look to the troop to provide him with a handout for his efforts. 

 

I know it's not what one wants to hear, but it is how it used to be in scouting when I was a kid. 

[cyclops]

Yeah, what resqman and Stosh describe is pretty much how it works here as well. And like Stosh, this unit does not have ISAs for the same reasons. Shrug it off and start over with the new unit. I wish the best of success to your son.

 

(How did this get stuck in I&P?)

Edited January 23, 2016 by cyclops

[NJCubScouter]

Moving this to Open Discussion. I suppose it could go in Fundraising, but it's about more than just fundraising.

[SSScout]

Ditto all that has been said before.   

 

The money raised by the Scout for the Unit belongs to the Unit, and by association and law, to the CO.   It is not the Scout's, never was.   If the Unit wishes to award the Scout some Campership money to help pay for the Scout's activities, they can do that, but the Scout has no say over it.  It ain't his.  He has no right to it.

 

The IRS has even ruled that such "Scout Account" money might be said to be a "commission" paid for the Scout's unit  fundraising efforts, and therefore a taxable income to the Scout. 

 

Google is your friend:   http://www.scouting.org/filestore/financeimpact/pdf/INDIVIDUAL_SCOUT_ACCOUNTS_AND_FUNDRAISING_BY_BSA_UNITS_20140226.pdf

 

By the time I was a Tenderfoot, I had my own bank account and savings book.   I liked the idea of seeing the amount grow as I worked for my dad and his friends.  It is always encouraged that the Scout "earn his own way".    

 

See you on the trail!  and thank you for your concern for your boy.  

[koolaidman]

resqman, Stosh, cyclops, SSScout all are correct.

 

If you were counting on that money to help with participation and you are facing financial difficulty, you may want to have a discreet conversation with the Scoutmaster or Committee Chair.  Oftentimes troops have a fund set up for this sort of thing.

[qwazse]

Welcome to the forums!

 

Unless we're talking about thousands of dollars, I have always countered that the tax angle of this argument is overblown. If it were that much, maybe the treasurer has a right to be nervous about the $ following the scout without requisite tax paperwork being completed.

 

Regardless, "credits" with a unit are just that -- with the unit and at their discretion as to how they should be spent.  If I were your boy, I would at least give them a receipt to be reimbursed for the $1 transfer fee. If your scout needed to make material purchases (new uniform numbers, neckerchief, different colored sleeping bag), he might want to turn receipts for them in as well!

 

Most of us scouters really do care and ask after our youth even after they leave our units. So, if you were counting on that money for a summer camp or something that the new troop is collecting money for right now, and you are in a bind, have the boy talk to his new SM. You could talk to the troop committee chair as well. They may be able to float your son until he can participate fully in one of their fundraisers, or they may be able to smooth things over with the old troop.

 

The advice about your son working odd jobs, however, is just a general good idea -- especially for a boy who may be losing interest in scouts and may want to find new interests. If he gets in the habit of earning about $100 a month (or being worth that much in chores to you to about that tune) and socking it away in a savings plan that he controls, by next summer he'll be ready for most any big-ticket adventure that comes his way.

[Krampus]

Ditto all that has been said before.   

 

The money raised by the Scout for the Unit belongs to the Unit, and by association and law, to the CO.   It is not the Scout's, never was.   If the Unit wishes to award the Scout some Campership money to help pay for the Scout's activities, they can do that, but the Scout has no say over it.  It ain't his.  He has no right to it.

 

The IRS has even ruled that such "Scout Account" money might be said to be a "commission" paid for the Scout's unit  fundraising efforts, and therefore a taxable income to the Scout. 

 

 

If we are talking about money in a scout account that is solely from fund-raising, it belongs to the CO (not the unit).

 

If we are talking about a scout account which holds both fund-raising money ear-marked for a specific purpose (e.g., Philmont) AND reimbursement money paid by the family for various activities (e.g., paid for January camp out but did not go so monies are credited back to the family), those are two different things.

 

A scout fan take money with them that was raised for a specific purpose, as they can also take personal money held in a scout account.

[qwazse]

If we are talking about money in a scout account that is solely from fund-raising, it belongs to the CO (not the unit).

 

If we are talking about a scout account which holds both fund-raising money ear-marked for a specific purpose (e.g., Philmont) AND reimbursement money paid by the family for various activities (e.g., paid for January camp out but did not go so monies are credited back to the family), those are two different things.

 

A scout fan take money with them that was raised for a specific purpose, as they can also take personal money held in a scout account.

It depends on the contract made when collecting payments for things like high adventure accounts.

 

For example, in our crew, we do not return deposits (which we usually collect monthly) on HA contingents. It is the responsibility of the person who cancels participation in the contingent to find his/her replacement and collect whatever payments he/she made from his/her replacement. The replacement then makes the remaining payments to our crew to reserve his/her slot. We simply do not have the operating margin to do big-ticket scouting any differently.

 

At the end of the trip, if we came in under budget, we divide the surplus evenly among participants.

 

I don't think @singlemomhlppls is in any situation like that.

 

But, the troop may have already committed some of the "credits", such as they were, to payments on camp or new equipment for each boy. That may partly explain their reticence to pass the funds along. But it sounds like they might just be paranoid about moving the money along.  Some of us know of scouters who are control freaks. The scenario is not that far fetched. That's why I suggested that the boy just sends a couple of receipts/invoices ... even if his expenses are with the other troop. Maybe attach a note "Hey, I'm still scouting. Any chance you could back me here?" That's more likely tug at a scouter's heartstrings than mom's appeal to fairness.