The optimal first year program?

[flyingember]

Ok, I'm 22 and have been on camp staff in the past and am very active still. (I also have a very minor case of aspergers which makes me quirky and focused)

 

How active? I went to camp twice and attended 13 monthly campouts in 2003. This is with two different troops.

 

I am finishing up running a first year program with my troop at school. The troop has ~30 scouts, 8 of them first years. A ninth quit due to school problems. All 8 should be first class by the time the next webelos are in and the scout rank. This isn't bad considering there was no book signoff from the middle of June to the middle of August while I was on break or during any of the other times I was gone. I still think the program needs improving, specifically in options.

 

I need some insight.

 

I'm pulling ideas from all over the place. I read everything.

 

1. Do you think troop meetings should be spent as a whole or should the first years be split up to do their own thing? If split up, how much and how often? I'm split on this idea.

 

2. How do you handle a scout whom does not attend campouts very often? Is this where time at meetings is important.

 

At camp.

First, I should make it clear that this is a 10 day-9 night camp. It's one of the longest in the country. We have more time than most. It's also a camp which fills up in 2 hours of the camp draw. (by full, I mean there's been more people than tents in the past)

 

My troop at home has the first year program down pat for camp. Everything gets done per an established program. I've generally copied this for my own program since I like it. They don't have the campout program down as much. It's too chaotic for my liking.

 

I'm slowly working on a writeup for first year programs year round and at camp since this coming summer I'll be the primary person running the first years around with my schhol troop and likely won't be back down with them after that. I don't want them to lose the ideas I have floating around in my head. I'm thinking of staying in this town after school, but haven't decided yet. At this point I'm leaning towards going home for the summer and moving back into town next fall.

 

Back to camp.

 

I'm a fan of the need free time as a first year philosophy, but to a limit.

 

3. How many badges should a first year return with? My current program has the first years beating most of the scouts on badge numbers.

 

4. Is there anything that is necessary to do at camp? I'm leaning towards items like constitutional rights and flag ceremony at least.

 

Back to rambling.

This is the direction I plan on spending in scouting. I've figured out how to work with the new scouts. I had one older scout figure me out in this regard as I'm not perfect in any regards. (I was helping with a group of older scouts only and keeping up with them on their "bantering" and gained a lot of their respect). It's all about giving someone the attitude and actions you expect from them. It's also about letting them see that you're human too.

 

On a related note I had to learn the second class knots three times. I still can't teach all of them perfectly. I learned the sheep shank from a 5th year recently.

 

Most of it comes from something one of my friends remarked upon. I last saw him at camp 2000, right after we graduated from HS (he's an eagle scout too). He joined the marines shortly after and I got together with him for the first time this past december. He remarked that I seemed more confident at one point. I realised later that he was right. This is the key point of a first year program moreso than any skills I have decided. Work in the confidence and you'll have done more than anything. A good leader doesn't always have the right answer, but the confidence to make an answer.(This message has been edited by flyingember)

[Bob White]

Hi flyingmember,

 

Congratulations on what sounds like a successful first year. I will give a brief answer to your questions, Please post or private message any follow up questions you might have.

 

Of your 4 questions, only one has a direct answer in the official resources and training of the BSA. The other answers will vary by leader, based on personal style.

 

1. Separate. The perpose of the New Scout patrol is to transition from Cuscout methods to Boy Scout methods. There is a lot of basic stuff to learn that the older guys do not want to relive. And the things the older guys are doing the New Scouts need to be prepared for first. So keep them separate for the most part.

 

2. Go camping anyway. All time spent with the scouts is important. I am not really sure what you are asking here?

 

3. There is no right number. Do not measure a summer camp by thew number of merit badges. Measure a good camp by enjoyment of the scouts, the width of their smiles, the sound of their laughter, and the number of scouts who are sad to leave.

 

4. Follow the rules, play nice with others, do stuff that interests you, have fun scouting.

 

Hope this helps.

Bob White(This message has been edited by Bob White)

[flyingember]

I'll clarify #2

 

I noticed that the scouts who camp the most advance the fastest. How do you work with this? A scout who attends three campouts should have the same opportunities to advance as one who attends 10.

 

The problem I've noticed is that with a hecktic campout schedule (which one isn't) you can't always get a compass course or work on totin-chip stuff or go on a hike or those longer requirements every single time. If the scout attends the three wrong campouts they might miss out on the only requirements they need. (I blame rain on cutting one first year hike, by rain, I mean 36 hours of it)

[Bob White]

"A scout who attends three campouts should have the same opportunities to advance as one who attends 10.

 

He did have the same opportunities. he just chose to to make use of them. You job is to make sur that a scout who participates has the opportunity to learn practice and apply the skills need to complete the requirements for tenderfoot to First Class within the first 12 to 14 months. But the scout has to make the effort to participate, doesn't he?

 

There are other ways that you can help make advancement opportunities available to a scout who misses a campout and wants to advance. Remember, it's The program's job to make a feast avalable, but you cannot force the scout to eat.

 

Bob White

 

[EagleInKY]

Amen Brother Bob!  I'm always amazed when a parent or youth will say that it's not his fault he is behind, when he chose not to attend the activity where we worked on the requirements he needs to fulfill.  We always tell the scouts what is going to be done on a campout (lashing skills, compass skills, etc.).  That way they can't say they didn't know they were going to miss them.

As for your original posts:

 

We split up the 1st year scouts for the instruction portion of the meeting.  We bring them back together for the patrol activities.

Ditto Bob's note.

Again, don't meaure by this.  Last year, I made a mistake in pushing the first year scouts too hard.  Some came back with six merit badges.  But it was too much.  They didn't have enough time to play and just have fun.  I'm going to strongly encourage at least one free period (to work on MBs) and one period for swimming or fishing.  This will leave them more free time in the evening.

Let the boys figure this one out.  You can encourage them along certain directions, but let them figure out what they want to do.

[ozemu]

Flyingember that is a good list and seems to have been a great effort in 2003.

 

1. Dont know about BSA exactly (bow to BW) but a mix is good. There are pros and cons. I settle this by focussing on excitement, progress, fun, leadership. No two situations are trhe same. Unless your Troop is enormous because you lose the luxory of tailoring things to individuals a bit I suspect.

 

2. Do nothing more than you are doing. If they want to progress they will turn up. Thier choice.

 

3. Every Scout will earn at a differnet rate. Do not try and regiment this.

 

4. Eat well, take care of personal rest and hygiene, and have fun. Learn how to handle the stress of group living. Other than that I leave it up to trhe individual and to a large extent their PL. (some will motivate the patrol in certain directions, one of which may be MBs)

 

So in a nut shell; if you have the luxury lean back and let the Scouts all move in their own ways.

 

Provide the best you can and see who buys in. Thier progress is not your responsibility which is kind of inferred in your post. Keep going the way you are but dont rate yourself on their achievements. Are you having fun and feeling good about it all?

 

Keep at it Flyingember - I will try to keep up.

 

 

[rjoy]

I guess it is the separation of the boys that bothers me the most. I understand the rational but to isolate them away from the main troop for the first year does them a disservice. I am trying to have them intergrated back into the troop after they finish 2nd Class. I feel that the boys have no model on how to be a boy scout or how leadership is done. There is also no mentoring by older scouts, (that I see at summer camp)other than the guides. Which our program is weak, but in the process of being revamped.

 

Right now the troop meets EVERY week so in reality there are no patrol meetings and actually the only reason they are there are just so the boys line up somewhere. So the dynamics of the patrol is non existant.

 

I feel the boys need to be back into the troop earlier so they can get to know the other boys.

They could still be excused from the troop meeting to do special teaching to finish up First Class and still meet the first year goals. This would also allow the older scouts to help them advance and maybe rekindle the Patrols.

 

Right now the main troop is comprised of boys just working on merit badges and goofing off and going on fun adventue outings that the first years do not get to go on because of separate scheduling.

 

Any feed back would be appreciated and how other troops are modelinf their First year Programs.

[OldGreyEagle]

If your first year program has patrol guides and you use instructors to teach the scout skills, I dont see how you can say there is no older scout role modeling, the patrol guides, the instructors, the PLC when they take their turn as patrol leader, there are plenty of role models, at least I think so

[EagleInKY]

"Seperate" doesn't mean isolated on a deserted island. Our First Year patrol spends the instruction part of the meeting seperate from the older guys. But they are all together (in patrols) for the pre-opening, opening, game/activity and closing. The seperate part is for the instruction. You need to be teaching new guys basic scouting skills. The older guys can be working on more advanced stuff, or working on plans for an upcoming event.

 

For example, we're starting a map & compass theme. The first years are covering all the basics (orienting a map, taking a bearing, basic orienteering). The older guys are going to learn GPS and more advanced orienteering skills. The games will be related to these themes.

[Greying Beaver]

The First Class Emphasis program is supposed to help ease the new boys into the boy scout program and get them to 1st Class within 12 months of joining the troop. It brings together proven retention techniques. BSA National did some numbercrunching a few years ago. Boiled down, a boy tends to stay in scouting if 1.)He attends the first summer camp after he joins, 2.)He attends troop meeetings on a regular basis, 3.) He stays with his fellow Webelo den members for at least the first year, 4.)A Troop Guide and "new guy" patrol ASM are assigned to this "new guy" patrol to teach and counsel the Patrol Method , 5.)the "new guy" patrol goes camping as a patrol on the troop's regular/monthly campouts, and 6.)He makes or is very close to completing 1st Class with in 12 months of joining. The TG demonstrates the Tenderfoot - 1st Class skills; the ASM backs up the TG and signs off on the requirements in the boys' handbooks.

Camping seems to be the glue that keeps first-year boys active longer. A First Class Emphasis program at summer camp is a great tool to help with the new guys' advancement. When planning for summer camp, the first qusetion should be "Is there a FCE program?" If not, reconsider. Most summer camps have an FCE program and they advertise it in their literature. The new guys have very little business taking MB classes, Swimming being an exception. It is an Eagle-required MB, and the boys need to be congratulated for taking that first step to becoming an Eagle Scout. Make sure that the boy's parents/guardians are aware of that as well. A boy still at Scout rank who earned five merit badges while at summer campand hasn't had any Tenderfoot - 1st Class requirements signed off? Yep, seen it happen.

Which brings us to the parents, the best friend or worse nightmare for the troop. If they want to help, ask them to go get trained as ASM's so that they become familiar with the Patrol Method. If the boy is coming from a Webelos den, the parnets are still in Cub Scouting Mode where the parents are all but members of the den. War Story: Had a "new guy" dad who when he was seen starting to cook for the "new guy" patrol, was asked why; he said that he is in the Grizzly Patrol with his son; he was led gently over to where the adults were camping and the basics of the Patrol Method were explained; he thought it great because he didn't have to cook supper for the boys because he is a member of the Fossil (adult) Patrol. The troop gains an ASM or two and the parents assume their correct place in the troop - back aways from the "new guys" to let the Patrol Method start to work.

[rjoy]

All of what you have said works for me, but in our situation the First Years are totally isolated from the troop. The only exception was Summer Camp where they were all together and that is when I saw them come together and work as a whole group and it was great. The way we have it now is that the First Years are with the troop for the opening ceremony and announcements and then we leave only to return for the closing ceremony. Now let me add that we have a very large troop and that our First Years number 24 which is broken up into 3 patrols.

Yes, we have guides and they sent about 3 guides per patrol. None of the guides knew how to teach boys and they came ill prepared so that the teaching was meaningless or most of the time wrong and with only about 20-30 minutes of teaching there is not enough time to teach properly.

We have now instituted a guide train course which they must take PRIOR to the new scouts arriving and not as it was done 2 months after the new scouts arrived and a lot of time was wasted. Our boys made tenderfoot by the time they went to summer camp and at summer camp they did the Second Class course. The summer camp courses were also taught poorly an unfortunate delema at least for the new guys. so here we are frustrated.

 

We have revamped the Guide Program.

But with our size troop the only way for alot of the older scouts ( I use this term loosly because the "older scouts" are only 12 - 18 months older than the boys they are teaching ) to get their leadership credit is to be a guide.

 

So our focus now is on teaching the guides how to become teachers and mentors and will also focus on making sure they know what they are teaching(which has been the main problem), a skill I think will make them become much better scouts and people.

 

Our Troop has a reputation for being an Eagle factory, a rreputation which bothers me.

 

I feel scouting should teach the boys how to become better people and have many outdoor skills learned and enjoyed so they can use the knowledge for a lifetime as I have. If they make Eagle in the process GREAT but it should not be the only main focus. Helping them become a better human being is of greater purpose.

 

There are boys in our troop that are Star working on Life that I would never entrust another scout to be with. Because they have advanced rapidly in rank but have not advanced at all as a person. These attributes are only learned thru experience and age.

 

Now after saying all that I made Eagle at 16 (Dad was Scoutmaster so I had to perform and wanted to) but there was no rush really put on me to become Eagle at 16 ( just to make Eagle as my father only made it to Star ), but there was also no First Year Program it was the old Baden Powell method and it worked. There is a reason only 3% of scouts that join Boy Scouts make Eagle, it was because they had the desire and the fortitude to stick with it to achieve their goal. When this process is handed to them on a silver platter it make achieving Eagle not such a large effort and in that vein not such a statement of character and effort.

 

The boys now a days rush thru the first year to become First Class at 12 years old, giving them 4 more YEARS to earn 21 Merit Badges, actually less because aleast 3 to 4 were earned at their first summer camp. They have Merit Badge Camps where they can earn 3 to 4 badges at a time. All of this extra effort is great but it has deminished the role of the troop as an environment for group learning and the dynamics that involves, to just a schedular of events.

 

 

[Greying Beaver]

Re: "advanced in rank but not as a person." That is the core of the definition of an "Eagle Machine".

 

The FCE program makes no mention of separating the first-year guys from the rest of the troop. They need the closer attention that can be given by TG's. And you are correct that TG's need to be trained how to teach . . . and make sure that they know the skills required for T'foot - 1st Class. Our new guys come into the troop from the feeder pack in April. They are off to summer camp between 2 and 3 months after joining. We have a good idea of the number of boys coming into the troop and add that to the number of scouts and scouters coming to summer camp. We use that time to get the boys comfortable with the Patrol Method - and the parents as well. It has paid dividends in other ways. In the past six years, three complete patrols have "Eagled-out". My son is counted in that number. Parental support (like providing vehicles for weekend campout transportation and staying for the campout) is the key to this. At the same time, our troop lost two complete "new guy" patrols two years in a row. But that is another story and the parents were not part of the problem; it was internal to the boys as a group.

A well-run FCE program does help with retention, but it takes some planning, training of both youth and adults, and dedication of both to the program.

[Vicki]

I was so glad to see this thread. I have just volunteered to be the ASM-new scouts in our troop because I could see our NS program foundering from lack of leadership. Our troop has about 20 active members and an NSP of about 5/6. The year before that we had three cross over and all three dropped out before attaining FC. Our NSP participates fully in the troop meetings - I'd say only three or four times a year do we take troop meeting time to work on FC advancement. I'm guessing from the input here that there is a happy medium we should be working towards in that regard. Any recommendations? Our troop meetings can get pretty sloppy and chaotic depending on a lot of factors but there are a few that have given me hope:

[Bob White]

Actual First Class Emphasis does involve a degree of segregation from the two other patrol levels in the troop to be effective.

 

Since the New Scout Patrol will be concentrating on very basic skills, if you do not separate them you will bore your regular patrols into leaving. They have already learned their First Class skills, they are in the new adventure mode and have no interest in rreliving last years program over again.

 

If the New Scout Patrol does everything that the experienced patrols do then you remove the anticipation and adventure of things to come.

[rjoy]

I disagree, as from watching the Guides teach it would seem everyone in the troop could use the relearning of the basics as most of them have forgotten most of what they learned in their first year and are unable to teach without relearning everything again. I know sad but true and thus the mentoring of the older scouts within the patrol venue help everyone.