Personal Sleepovers/Scout Functions? When is it not ok?

[jbelanger86]

So my husband and I are having a discussion about sleepovers and I need some opinions. 

 

I am the Cubmaster and the Wolf Den leader, I have 5 boys in my den. My son is 7 and really his only friends are the friends in that den. He never even talks about other kids at school other than those children. So when it comes to sleepovers, how do you make the distinction between a scout function and just a birthday sleepover for instance?

 

If my son asked to have boys to sleepover, it would most likely be the three that are in his class at school, but all three are scouts. 

 

How can I let my kid have friends over without it becoming an issue about 2 deep leadership and YP?

 

I just dont want my kid not to have sleepovers because I am his den leader. Thoughts?

[RememberSchiff]

Not a scout activity, not a problem, life returns to normal - birthday parties, sleepovers, school projects, video gaming,...

[blw2]

agreed.  It's easy to know if its a scout function...

But honestly I'm not sure why it matters.  You should never ideally be alone with a kid that's not your kid anyway.  There should at least be other kids around if not another adult.

so except for the lack of a tour permit, what's the difference really?

[JoeBob]

The '2 deep leadership' principle is for emergencies.  You still have neighbors, right?

 

The 'no 1 on 1 contact' principle can be satisfied by 2 kids and one adult.  Just avoid being in a room alone with one child not your own.

[Stosh]

My take on this situation would be from the perspective of ... "are you giving special considerations to your son and not to the others just because you are the den leader/CubMaster?"  Would you go over to some other scout's house, not from your den, for his birthday party sleepover?  After all, you are the CubMaster for the whole pack, not just DL for your son's den.

 

I would always be a bit careful of using my position of leadership in the unit to favor my son, or any one other scout in the unit.  There's the parent hat we wear and the scouter hat we wear, not good to wear them both at the same time especially if it can be construed as "playing favorites" and having a pet scout, worse if it's your son.

[Hedgehog]

My take on this situation would be from the perspective of ... "are you giving special considerations to your son and not to the others just because you are the den leader/CubMaster?"  Would you go over to some other scout's house, not from your den, for his birthday party sleepover?  After all, you are the CubMaster for the whole pack, not just DL for your son's den.

 

I would always be a bit careful of using my position of leadership in the unit to favor my son, or any one other scout in the unit.  There's the parent hat we wear and the scouter hat we wear, not good to wear them both at the same time especially if it can be construed as "playing favorites" and having a pet scout, worse if it's your son.

 

Stosh:

 

Are you saying she can't throw a birthday party for her son if she doesnt do it for all the kids in the Den?

 

How can I let my kid have friends over without it becoming an issue about 2 deep leadership and YP?

 

I just dont want my kid not to have sleepovers because I am his den leader. Thoughts?

 

As others have said, if you are doing something outside of scouts, it is outside of scouts.  The YPT guidelines (no one on one contact) and two-deep leadership are good ideas whether in scouting or otherwise.  Having other kids around avoids one-on-one and having your husband around is good in case you need to run out.

Edited January 10, 2016 by Hedgehog

[Sniktaw]

The idea that you are worrying about this makes me sad. You shouldn't stop your family from having normal activities nor stop yourself from being a normal mother because you volunteer in an organization that works with children.

 

I have thought about the reverse--At Scouts, the rules say I can't be trusted to be in a room with 6 second graders without another adult present, but when I was a teacher, I could be in a room alone with 23 second graders all day, every day. And now I can pick up one of the second graders from school and drive him home with my son so they can play together. And amazingly. . . I can be completely alone with either one of my sons and be absolutely sure that I won't hurt them.

 

Follow the rules of the organization when you're there. But don't start doubting yourself. You know you're not going to harm the kids at your kid's sleepover. If the other parents don't trust you, they won't let the kids go to your house, nothing to do with Scouts. If we tried to live our personal lives by the rules imposed by schools, Scouts, church, etc., we would be incredibly isolated because we couldn't ever trust anybody.

[Stosh]

Stosh:

 

Are you saying she can't throw a birthday party for her son if she doesnt do it for all the kids in the Den?

 

Heavens NO!  Of course she can have a b-day party for her son and she can invite the whole den over to the house for cake and ice cream, bring a sleeping bag and hang out for the night.  She just shouldn't be counting it as a scout activity for the den.  She wears her mom hat, not her DL hat.  Otherwise to be fair to all the other boys, she should be having these parties for all the boys when their b-days roll around in order to be fair and not show preferential treatment for her son.

 

Heck, If I were a boy in that den and my DL had a sleepover b-day party for me, I would think I was pretty special.

 

As others have said, if you are doing something outside of scouts, it is outside of scouts.  The YPT guidelines (no one on one contact) and two-deep leadership are good ideas whether in scouting or otherwise.  Having other kids around avoids one-on-one and having your husband around is good in case you need to run out.

 

Even if one is not doing scout activities, the protection of YPT is for the adults and I would not be doing any activity with anyone else's child without others present!  Not in this day and age anyway.

[CalicoPenn]

Sleepover, at your house, with your son's friends?  Not a Scout function?  Not wearing your DL/CM Hats?  Not a 2-deep or YPT issue.

 

Sleepover, as a Den, at a local museum?  That's when YPT kicks in.

 

I also wouldn't worry about the other dens .  Those Cubs can have sleepovers with whomever they want.

 

I will suggest, however, that there is a potential problem no one has pointed out.  You have a den of 5 - one assumes that includes your son.  3 of the other Cubs are in his class and you say that those 3 wouold be the likely people your son would ask.  If you do a group sleepover of your son and those 3 boys, how do you think the Cub/Friend from the den not in his class will feel about not being invited?  Sorry - this is where being the DL has an affect - the parents of the boy not invited might think you're playing favorites within the den - and they might not see any difference here between a den activity and a personal activity if 4 out of 5 den mates are doing something together.  If you do a group sleepover, I would make sure, as a parent, that my son invited everyone from the den.  If you do individual sleepovers (one at a time) and the other three boys had a turn, I'd make sure (as a parent) that my son had a sleepover with the other boy too - they're all in the same den, and while he might not be as close to the boy not in his class, as a Cub Scout in his den, he should still be looked upon as a friend.

[perdidochas]

So my husband and I are having a discussion about sleepovers and I need some opinions. 

 

I am the Cubmaster and the Wolf Den leader, I have 5 boys in my den. My son is 7 and really his only friends are the friends in that den. He never even talks about other kids at school other than those children. So when it comes to sleepovers, how do you make the distinction between a scout function and just a birthday sleepover for instance?

 

If my son asked to have boys to sleepover, it would most likely be the three that are in his class at school, but all three are scouts. 

 

How can I let my kid have friends over without it becoming an issue about 2 deep leadership and YP?

 

I just dont want my kid not to have sleepovers because I am his den leader. Thoughts?

 

Well, if it's not a scout function, no worries about the legalities of YP.  That said, sad to say, but it's just prudent in this world to never be one on one with any child that is not your own. 

[meyerc13]

I would agree that it is a non-Scout function, so it is okay.  With that said, there was just a case in the national news of a pedophile who was a Scout Leader, involved with Youth Ministry, offering swimming lessons, and had no children at home.  We had another case locally where a pedophile was hosting movie nights at his house for neighborhood children (thankfully this guy wasn't a Scout leader).

 

As a parent, would I let my son or daughter sleep over at a friend's house?  In most cases the answer is yes, and that includes one of my Den Leaders and my Pack's Committee Chair.  If a Cub Scout leader without kids offered to host a sleep over I would be very concerned and likely report that to the Council Executive.  It's all about context, and while there are still some great, childless adults involved in Scouting who are not pedophiles, they have enough sense to follow Scouting's no 1x1 contact and two deep leadership rules in all of their interactions with kids.