Statistics in Scouting - retention of new scouts and other points of interest

[MattR]

Scouts go through stages and they hit them at different points as they mature at different rates. So, different scouts need different things depending on their maturity. The first stage is all about fun and friends. Without fun, forget it. Friendship and fun are tightly connected and eventually those friendships are worth as much as the fun. Scouts must make friends in the troop by the time they're 13 or they will drop. I've seen plenty of immature young scouts that stay at this stage until they're 13 whereas other scouts are beyond this by the time they cross over.

 

Sooner or later fun and friends is not enough (although there are the exceptions) and some sort of challenge is required. Advancement can play a big role in this. Many young scouts are all about advancement but some see it as school. Conquering advancement challenges gives the scouts something new to do. High adventure and more challenging campouts can also satisfy this need.

 

If the program only reaches one of these stages for new scouts the others will leave. To me FCFY is for a fairly narrow group or else the requirements are not met.

 

Still later, scouts need adult recognition and the best way to get that is to do something as well as the adults and is truly important to the troop. The scouts know what's hard to do and what isn't, and they know a cushy POR will not give them the recognition they want. This is where I think boy led is truly important. It's the scouts that solve this need that will stick around till they're 18.

 

I'd say scouts drop because they aren't getting what they need. Scouts won't have fun if they are completely lost at what's going on, if nobody is paying them any attention when they struggle, if scouts is "like school" when all they want is recess, if scouts is "only games" when they want more challenge, or if they are stuck between their parents having an argument. Parents that participate can be a huge help to younger scouts. So can an older scout that cares. The right scouts as troop guides, with the right adult backing them up, does a lot for retention.

 

We do not worry about FCFY, it's more like SCFY. More importantly, I worry about program, communication, and how these relate to meeting the scouts' needs.

[Eagle94-A1]

As far as I know Venture patrols still exist as they still sell the VENTURE strip. Way we worked it in my old troop was basically a continuation of the Leadership Corps, in fact we didn't switch the name to Venture crew until after i turned an adult, circa 1993 or thereabouts, because we had a stack LC patches and finished up our supply of them before switching.

 

Way it worked for us was that the LC were the older Scouts who had expereince as PLs, were First Class or higher, and had troop level responsibilities. While we had designated Instructors, everyone did their share of teaching and mentoring. Plus we were the ones running the interpatrol competitions.

 

And you are 110% correct, you don't have older Scouts, you are stuck on a new scout program. I think that is part of the problem with my current troop, and am hoping Philmont will fix it after the group comes back.

 

As for  the new parent not getting it, you are so spot on. I hated interfering adults as a youth, and am doing my darnedest to not interfere now. And I am trying to get the new parents out of Cub Scout mode.

 

 

In regards to camp family nights,  Most camps I've been to as an adult have family night on Friday now, and entire troops will leave Friday night after the campfire.  Blew my mind when 1/2 my troop left Friday.

[Hedgehog]

Interesting discussion.  The things I think lead to our Troop's high retention rate are:

 

1.  Quality Outdoor Program.  We have had great campouts in April, May and June that the new guys attend.  We try to schedule 12 outings a year.  Recent outings (since the last group of cross overs)  included a shakedown backpacking hike, a campout the older guys cycled 25 miles to, a campout with a hike around 20 waterfalls, a three-day canoing and backpacking trek, summer camp, a 50 mile backpacking trek, sea kayaking, a camporee, an 18 mile backpacking trek and a camping trip to Washington D.C.

 

2.  Summer Camp. - If they go to camp, the will stay.

 

3.  Managing Adult and Scout Expectations - We sell ourselves as being boy-led and the scouts and parents buy into that.  No surprises.  I spend a lot of time preaching the benefits of boy-led and indoctrinating any adults who hang around meetings or who want to come on campouts with us.

 

I think most of our losses are guys who's heart really wasn't into scouting, but just crossed over with the rest of their den.  I can quickly predict who will drop.  They typically don't like camping, they typically are very dependent on their parents and they typically don't join in their patrols.

 

We have adult assigned mixed age patrols (I know, I know -- that is another topic for the future).  The new scouts are assigned to a patrol, typically with other new scouts (like 3 per patrol).  They new guys seem to like being part of a group with older kids and our older guys are really good at including the crossovers and mentoring them.

 

We don't push FCFY.  That being said, the boys get 75% of the requirements done for FC at summer camp.  We range about a third in 18 months, another third in 24 months and the rest within the next year.

 

 

[Eagle94-A1]

 

We have adult assigned mixed age patrols (I know, I know -- that is another topic for the future).  The new scouts are assigned to a patrol, typically with other new scouts (like 3 per patrol).  They new guys seem to like being part of a group with older kids and our older guys are really good at including the crossovers and mentoring them.

 

 

 

One way we did it was at the Webelos troop visit, the SPL assigned the Webelos to the dens. They learned some of the skills for the Webelos Overnighter weekend at the meeting. The patrol they were assigned to was the patrol they would camp with.  Within the patrol, the PL assigned one of the Scouts to work with the Webelos and be his buddy. It worked well, and when they Crossed Over, they usually went into the patrol with their buddy from the overnighter.

[Eagledad]

 

We have adult assigned mixed age patrols (I know, I know -- that is another topic for the future).  The new scouts are assigned to a patrol, typically with other new scouts (like 3 per patrol).  They new guys seem to like being part of a group with older kids and our older guys are really good at including the crossovers and mentoring them.

 

 

We have tried many ways of mixing new scouts into the troop, but this method is by far our most successful. We had the least complaints from all the new scouts and their parents and they assimilated the quickest into the patrol method program. We also have the least discipline problems because the new scouts and their new patrol mates became friends quickly. New scouts are typically the most difficult behavior problems because they are new to independence and it takes a little while to learn the boundaries of good behavior. 

 

Barry

[blw2]

Wow, this has really morphed into an interesting discussion of new scout retention.  I originally had in mind just a random discussion about various studies that have been made either scientifically or intuitively, not only around retention but with other aspects too.... I suppose it mostly boils down to retention in a way though.

 

No matter, this retention stuff is very on topic for me and my son's den.

 

Just based on my intuition, I think the points of an active troop (or maybe better an active patrol), engaged parents, and 1st year summer camp all really make sense.

 

I really saw the role active parents play in cubs.  A high percentage of drops seemed to be those scouts whose parents didn't pay attention. If the parents didn't take their son to the camps or other trips and activities, the scout was much less interested.  It's one reason I hope to find an ASM position with the troop.... but I certainly don't want to make it more adult heavy either.  I certainly am not a helicopter parent and fully want to give my son complete separation, but I also realize that if I'm involved generally, if I'm going to summer camp anyway, he'll be very much more likely to go too.

 

it sure seems like his friends play a similar role.  I can fully imagine that my son will be much less interested if he's assigned to a patrol that doesn't have his best friend and den mate in it as well.

 

the comments about the New Scout Patrol with assigned ASM really do scream Cub Scouts (as someone wrote earlier) or 3rd year WEBELOS.... but I can also see the logic behind it.  It does seem like a real tight rope walk though, balancing between enough and not enough... and the need to slowly retreat from it....

 

 

 

I still wonder though,

 

for example the summer camp attendance vs retention idea.

Is it the scout or is it the act of actually attending camp?

for example, an interesting twist to look at might be looking at scouts that really aren't into scouting but that are forced to go to summer camp, vs scouts that are into scouting but for some reason aren't able to go that 1st year....

 

or another "study" comes to mind

in the idea of an active troop is what grabs them....

are patrol level troops more successful in this compared with troop level troops?

(where troop level troops have patrols but they get shuffled and reassigned often, ad hoc patrols are formed for every activity because one patrol or another is down to a small number, etc..) or put another way, do you have troop meetings VS Patrol meetings

Edited January 7, 2016 by blw2

[Stosh]

Over the years I have seen a lot of boys come and go in the program for a variety of different reasons.

 

Some boys cross over and stay because their friends do. Others don't like the camping and friendship doesn't make any difference.

Some boys can't get over the homesickness issue.

Some boys find other activities more attractive and satisfying.

 

Some troops are high adventure powerhouses and the boys go because of the trips. 

Some troops are restricted by physical limitations of their CO and can't handle a lot of boys.

Some troops are adult led and the boys don't like it or do like it.

Some troops are boy led and the boys don't like it or do like it.

 

Some parents push their boys, get over involved and their sons feel obligated to hang around.

Some parents don't push at all, aren't involved indicate to the boys they don't care, so why should they.

Some parents tell their children scouting is stupid and a waste of time.

 

Over the years I've seen and heard it all.....  As SM it's my job to find the boys that want to be in scouting, want the leadership development, want the fun, and help them get it.  Those are the ones that hang around and become SM's/ASM's in their adult years.... even if they never have sons of their own.