New request - parent MB counsel 1 non-Eagle mb to son w/o being a MBC

[RememberSchiff]

We had a some families leave our troop at re-charter time last month. They had expected and wanted Boy Scouts to be similar to Cub Scouts but there was one particular complaint that has me thinking.

 

Each of these parents missed signing off on THEIR son's advancement, in particular a merit badge which related to their work or hobby. They went from 100% signoff ability to 0%! They were NOT interested in the Boy Scout hassle of becoming a MBC. They just wanted that part of Cub Scouting that was lost - I want to work on a badge with MY son and just MY son...and don't lay a guilt trip on me.

 

I want to work on Workworking/Gardening/Archery/Plumbing/Canoeing/Forestry.. MB with MY son and just MY son in my workshop/garden/outdoors. I don't want to fuss with youth protection, joining the BSA, background checks,...I just want that part of Cub Scouting that we both enjoyed to exist in some limited way in Boy Scouts.  Just ME and MY son.

 

I questioned these parents about ranks and Eagle required merit badges. They just wanted to easily work on ONE non-Eagle required badge with their son and just their son.

 

Are they being selfish or unreasonable?

 

Edited January 4, 2016 by RememberSchiff

[blw2]

I would say they are just misguided.

 

I understand and even share the desire to do Father and Son stuff.  There are lots of good reasons to want to do this, and for some Cub Scouts was a good opportunity to do it.  (I'm starting to think that this is a departure from what is best for the Cub Scouts, but that's another thread)  The thing is, this goal of father/son stuff doesn't fit in at all with the aims and methods of Boy Scouts.

 

Seems to me that almost any parent can pretty easily understand and appreciate the aims and methods of scouting if the concept is properly presented to them and they keep just a bit of open mind.  I don't think we have a system in place to properly present this.... and I would even guess that a lot, maybe a majority, of scouters don't even fully know themselves.

 

I'd go on to guess that this desire for father-son activity (or mother-son) is a major reason for the adult heavy imbalance that the BSA is suffering under.

 

I'm even hesitant to judge the selfishness of wanting to do it only with their son's.  I'd guess that a lot, maybe a majority, of us scouters are volunteering because we have sons in the program.  We wouldn't be doing this if our sons weren't in the program now or in the past.  In this way I'd say that many of us are really doing it "for our sons", BUT we are able to realize something that the parents you're referencing don't... and that is that helping the other boys, helping the unit, etc... is really helping our sons to have a better program than they could have if they were just solo scouts.

[John-in-KC]

Yes.

 

They need training on the aims and methods.  They need to understand that parents counseling their own child is not a best practice, even if permitted by GTA.  They can work with their son and prep him for a proper MB counselor, or they can be counselors to many.

 

This is one of those situations where you ask for a Commissioner who happens to be on the District Advancement Committee.  Get a neutral voice in to explain the methods and the techniques.

[qwazse]

Maybe selfish, but it's not their fault that BSA adds the paperwork/training burden.

 

My knee-jerk: if you are not willing serve any boys in the district (or at least your troop), then you're not ready to sign-off for your son.

 

That is not to say that you cannot do the required activities together with your son. After the first meeting with the counselor, do those activities, then let the counselor sign off on the other stuff!

 

When I took my kids on their first rock-climbing expedition, we hired a guide from an outfitter who had certified MBC counselors. I had fun making him espresso against the cliff face while he went over reqs with Son #1, and Daughter and Son #2 imitated him. (I'm not sure if Son #1 ever turned in that blue card.) Sons learned new knots and Daughter learned it's all about the coffee!

 

Since then, even if I could counsel the badge, the Mrs and I sent the kids elsewhere for the counseling part and only hung around for the "fun stuff."

[walk in the woods]

No, they are not being unreasonable or selfish.  They are being engaged parents savoring what little time they have left before they become the dumbest people on the planet.  It's a shame the bureaucracy turns them away because they might find they would like to work with more boys.  They are going to work on those things with their sons outside the BSA anyway.  What harm would it do to allow your local union plumber to sign off on his son's plumbing merit badge?  All it takes is trusting local leadership to make informed decisions.

 

When I was still recruiting MBC's I had a few teachers turn me down flat because of the BSA bureaucracy.  They were more than willing to work with the boys but they simply weren't interested in registering, going through YPT and MBC training.  

[NJCubScouter]

I agree with John-in-KC and I would add that maybe the preparation of parents for the Boy Scout program should take place while their sons are still Cub Scouts - probably Webelos. Part of the purpose of Webelos is to get the kids ready to be Boy Scouts, and maybe there also needs to be something to get the parents ready to be parents of Boy Scouts (instead of Cub Scouts) so they know what to expect.

[Krampus]

Yes.

 

They need training on the aims and methods.  They need to understand that parents counseling their own child is not a best practice, even if permitted by GTA.  They can work with their son and prep him for a proper MB counselor, or they can be counselors to many.

 

This is one of those situations where you ask for a Commissioner who happens to be on the District Advancement Committee.  Get a neutral voice in to explain the methods and the techniques.

Spot on.

 

They miss the point, they can still work with their kid on things; HOWEVER, the point of scouting is to develop self sufficiency, not to be Lawnmower parents for another 8 years.

 

J-in-KC, for some darn reason my fat finger neg repped your post.

[Krampus]

Did I miss something in the OP. Did the parents say BSA paperwork was the reason for their only wanting to work with their kids? Or are they just control freaks who only wanted to work with their kids?

[John-in-KC]

When I was still recruiting MBC's I had a few teachers turn me down flat because of the BSA bureaucracy.  They were more than willing to work with the boys but they simply weren't interested in registering, going through YPT and MBC training.  

Legitimate issue, since in all 50 States teachers are designated mandatory reporters.  They are also trained to teach.  All you really should have to tell them is use example, mentoring, and discussion techniques as your vehicles.  The Scout is in the self-learning mode.

[JoeBob]

I don't see a problem.  They can still work with their son in their area of expertise; they just can't sign off on the requirements.  

[blw2]

I agree with John-in-KC and I would add that maybe the preparation of parents for the Boy Scout program should take place while their sons are still Cub Scouts - probably Webelos. Part of the purpose of Webelos is to get the kids ready to be Boy Scouts, and maybe there also needs to be something to get the parents ready to be parents of Boy Scouts (instead of Cub Scouts) so they know what to expect.

 

If I had it to do over again, knowing what I know now, I would do my best to run the pack a lot more like boy led patrols... and not just WEBELOS.  No reason in my opinion to wait until WEBELOS.  That may be when you kick it into a higher gear

(but I'm thinking no matter you wouldn't want to go into overdrive gear for WEBELOS either...Just like we could do the boys a better service by translating the methods of scouting down to the pack level, I think the boys would be best served by not getting the WEBELOS scouts up to totally qualified for scout or tenderfoot rank.... I think that would tend to make it too boring when they first join a troop.)

 

Anyway, i think the boys would enjoy it more if they were better put into control of their activities and meetings, and if their dens were a bit more like patrols... and the side benefit is not getting the parents derailed with misconceptions of what scouting is (and not burning out the leaders quite so much too)

[Eagle94-A1]

My thoughts.

 

1) I think the parents do not understand the process and need to be registered. The MB process is a chance for the Scout to show interest without parental involvement. It is also suppose to allow him initiative.

 

2) Me personally, I will NOT sign off on any of my son's advancement UNLESS there is no other registered MBC in the district, and even then I will have another adult look at the stuff and verify that he is actually doing it.

 

We had an issue a while back in my council with one grandfather, father, and mother registering to be MBCs in addition to their unit roles of IR/CC, SM, and ASM. They were not doing a proper job, and no one on the district or council level was aware of the problems until the grandson/son went for his Eagle BOR.  He didn't do the work. An appeal went to national, was granted I his favor with the comment you don't penalize the Scout for adult mistakes, and the entire district advancement committee resigned in protest. 

 

Another issue, and one I've known since Cub Scouts, is that tend to expect more out of my son than others. So I'd rather he go elsewhere to get an unbiased MBC.

 

 

3) In the units I've been in, the troop had policies that parents do not sign off on advancement UNLESS ABSOLUTELY NECESSARY (emphasis). Example of that was one Nuclear Science MBC in the entire council, so son and a few friends worked on it with dad the MBC.

[SeattlePioneer]

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No, they are not being unreasonable or selfish.  They are being engaged parents savoring what little time they have left before they become the dumbest people on the planet.>>

 

 

I agree.    BSA is WAY too used to dictating to everyone when they should be accommodating interested people instead.

 

Man,  am I tired of that. 

 

At present I've spent two months and dozens of e-mails trying to get a Den Leader registered.  He can't get the my.scouting.org website to give him a user name.

 

Such things are SUPPOSEDF to be easy.  When they don't work they make a pile of make work for paid staff and volunteers.

 

Frankly,  I've about had it.

[RememberSchiff]

Did I miss something in the OP. Did the parents say BSA paperwork was the reason for their only wanting to work with their kids? Or are they just control freaks who only wanted to work with their kids?

Yes.

 

These parents were heavily involved in Cubs, some as DL and assistants. All were burned-out from 4+ years of Cubbing and just wanted to work on one Boy Scout badge with their son. One of the things they enjoyed the most from Cub Scouts was working with their sons on advancement. They were willing to work with more scouts, but not willing to go through all the BSA steps to be MBC. Parents teaching their sons a set of skills.

 

Anyway they left. They had also expected a more adult-run scout program with fewer fundraising as their Cub program was. They are good families and I expect they will all do well.

 

I agree that expectations were not correctly set in Cub Scouts or cross-over but perhaps an argument could be made that Cub Scouts and Boy Scouts should be more consistent. The BSA has made a step in that direction with all scout programs now? using the same Oath and Law. Perhaps the Aims and Methods should be next.

 

Here is the Cub Scout Advancement Method

3. Using Advancement

Recognition is important to boys. The advancement plan provides fun for the boys, gives them a sense of personal achievement as they earn badges, and strengthens family understanding as adult family members and their den leader work with boys on advancement projects.

 

Here is the Boy Scout Advancement Method

Advancement

Boy Scouting provides a series of surmountable obstacles and steps in overcoming them through the advancement method. The Boy Scout plans his advancement and progresses at his own pace as he meets each challenge. The Boy Scout is rewarded for each achievement, which helps him gain self-confidence. The steps in the advancement system help a Boy Scout grow in self-reliance and in the ability to help others.

 

http://www.scouting.org/Home/CubScouts/Parents/About/pandm.aspx

http://www.nesa.org/methods.html

 

It is interesting to note that the three Aims of Boy Scouts is a subset of the ten Purposes of Cub Scouts.

 

Thanks for your thoughts.

[Krampus]

@@RememberSchiff, thanks for the detail. 

 

Besides filling out yet another form to be MBC and taking a brief online training, what other obstacles did they encounter?