Troop Meetings: How to Motivate the Troop

[Eagledad]

 

That's Pollyanna at it's best. Or is it Mary Poppin's spoon full of sugar that is being referenced?

 

Ah, the " my way of the highway." approach to ideas.  LOL

 

Oh, what was that about the Scout Law?

 

Barry

Edited December 15, 2015 by Eagledad

[Stosh]

@@Stosh, I have always had a problem with the "train 'em, let them lead" statement. For me the "training" of youth is not a one-time thing. The training is on-going so I don't think we are ever really done until they leave Scouting.

 

I know you know that.

 

At first one must use the traditional "training" approach for the new boy.  That's all he has ever known in his life.  It's what's done at home, at school, at church, at whatever.....If nothing else, that's how one get's the boy's attention an convey information in a process he's familiar with.

 

However, as time passes, that process needs to change, and it doesn't happen because of the boy, but because of the adult instructor.  I don't know if it was a Freudian Slip or just a short cut, but you left out a vital part of the quote, "Trust 'em".  This is where adults have the most trouble.  Often times adults can't trust one another, how are they ever going to learn to trust a 12 year old kid?  Until one learns to trust these boys with THEIR program, the adults will continue to look over their shoulder, place judgements, and constantly offer up alternative actions "for them to consider", they really are held back in their leadership opportunities.  And behold, don't think for a moment that the boys haven't figured this all out!  They ain't the dumb little kids we often make them out to be.  They are watching closely, VERY closely at any and all differences Scouting leadership might offer them as promoted in the PR handout.  When that doesn't happen, they're gone.

 

Once they are trained, I truly trust them. I make it a concerted effort not to interfere, judge or even tease or joke about their leadership.  I stand back and watch the slow-motion train wrecks all the time.  I also see their major accomplishements.   I am their peer, not their instructor, guidance counselor, mentor, father image, director, coach... I am their peer as much as they are mine.  My boys know that I will trust them as long as they don't ever give me a reason not to.  The ball always stays in their court.

 

These boys get the same advice I have given my freinds for 60 years.  When my buddies and I would get together to chat about life and get a "I did a major stupid thing, the other day" comment, I did not shift into coaching, directing, counseling, or any of those kinds of roles, I just ordered another round and said with a smile, "I bet you never do that again." and life goes on.  The boys know when the screwed things up, they don't need me to remind them, or judge them, or punish them.  They just need a buddy that accepts them, faults and all and then moves on.

 

Let them lead.  For good or bad, I fall into place with all the other boys that follow along, and make sure my other adults do the same.  I don't know how many times over the course of my life time I have had someone whisper in my ear, "That isn't gonna work." to which I always respond, "Maybe, but maybe this time it will."  DIfferent leader, different boys, different setting, maybe it will work.   

 

Like I said, I don't seem to have the same kinds of problems that come up over and over again on this forum when it comes to some of the inter-personal relationship problems of scouting.  I may not offer up miracle solutions, but whatever it is I'm doing, seems to work for me and my boys and when all is said and done, taking care of my boys is all I ever worry about anyway. 

[Stosh]

 

Ah, the " my way of the highway." approach to ideas.  LOL

 

Oh, what was that about the Scout Law?

 

Barry

 

 

"Anything can be made somewhat pleasurable with the right creativity."

 

Well when one can come up with a creative sollution that makes poverty, broken homes, bullying, domestic abuse, abandonment, cultural clashes, injury, sickness, lose of friend or relative, and such pleasurable, be sure to have them share with us.  I deal with this kind of reality all the time with my boys.  I would love to hear about the right creativity.  Until then the color of the sky in my world is still blue on a good day.

[Eagledad]

"Anything can be made somewhat pleasurable with the right creativity."

 

Well when one can come up with a creative sollution that makes poverty, broken homes, bullying, domestic abuse, abandonment, cultural clashes, injury, sickness, lose of friend or relative, and such pleasurable, be sure to have them share with us.  I deal with this kind of reality all the time with my boys.  I would love to hear about the right creativity.  Until then the color of the sky in my world is still blue on a good day.

The title of the thread is "Troop Meetings: How to Motivate the Troop".

 

Barry

[perdidochas]

Simple motivation technique:

 

Put up signs:

 

The floggings will continue until morale improves.

[qwazse]

But this is not paperwork really, is it? ...

 

 

Well, maybe if it was burned on a 1x12 planed board, and the spaces were to be filled in with a CNC router!

 

Every boy is different! Your SPL is looking for a level of accountability that his PL's did not expect to give. He has every right to expect it, but PL's are on a learning-curve and he has to help them surmount it.

 

Bottom line:

He has to figure out the best carrot, they have to decide what stick they'll heed.

They'll both have to figure out where they will compromise.

You might have to figure out how many sandbars this boat is allowed to hit.

[Krampus]

@@Stosh, how long has it been since you've seen the "traditional training" given to kids in school? It is spoon-fed to them these days. Completion grades, not review of material. Text books are online but rarely used. Handout printed, checked only that there is pen or pencil on them (not for correct answers) and then teachers wonder why kids fail the quizzes and exams.

 

I won't spoon-fed my scouts but I will teach them to fish. I will then drop by to show them how to cast around trees, what the best lure is for catfish, how to tie on additional weights, etc. That's the follow up training.

[Krampus]

Every boy is different! Your SPL is looking for a level of accountability that his PL's did not expect to give. He has every right to expect it, but PL's are on a learning-curve and he has to help them surmount it.

 

Bottom line:

He has to figure out the best carrot, they have to decide what stick they'll heed.

They'll both have to figure out where they will compromise.

You might have to figure out how many sandbars this boat is allowed to hit.

 

Actually the PLs for the most part follow the expectation. Two don't, four do. The PLs know what is expected. The two in question are the biggest complainers with something is "boring".

 

The SPL's carrot is to encourage them to do their duty. They get this twice a year. Not a big deal. His idea was to have the PLs do the work at PLC...but not tell them prior to announcing the agenda.

 

SPL is willing to get them started with ideas (he has tons). That's his compromise. He figures he's done the research, they can pull it together. He and the patrol advisor are around if the PL needs help.

 

If the work goes undone then I will step in. The SPL has a few back up meetings in his back pocket, so the work will be done. The PLs will be brought in to chat about their POR and being at risk of not getting credit as completing meeting plans is part of their POR. The proverbial shot across the bow...usually works. Want the SPL to work this out before I have to step in.

[Stosh]

@@Stosh, how long has it been since you've seen the "traditional training" given to kids in school? It is spoon-fed to them these days. Completion grades, not review of material. Text books are online but rarely used. Handout printed, checked only that there is pen or pencil on them (not for correct answers) and then teachers wonder why kids fail the quizzes and exams.

 

I won't spoon-fed my scouts but I will teach them to fish. I will then drop by to show them how to cast around trees, what the best lure is for catfish, how to tie on additional weights, etc. That's the follow up training.

 

  You and I are about 99% of the time on the same page.  But remember when you and your buddies go out fishing is it the same as when you and a scout go out fishing?  You assume your buddy knows what he's doing until he does something stupid.... You start out trusting him to do what's right.  If he asks for help, fine, if not fine.  But when the fishin's done for the day, you have caught a ton of fish and he's got nothing to show for the day, do you start teaching him better ways to fish or do you start a campfire, break out a couple of cold brewskis hand him one, sit down in your camp chair and with a big grin on your face, ask , "Well, how was your day?"    You're not his coach, not his mentor, not anything but a buddy.  If he's interested in knowing what you did to catch fish, he'll ask if not, watching the fire with a buddy and a brew is still a good thing.  The "following" training is not the same as teaching him how to tie the leader to the line or what bait to use.  There comes a time when training takes on a whole different personnae.  You'll know it when you see it.  It's a necessary next step with your boys and their leadership development.

[Stosh]

Well, maybe if it was burned on a 1x12 planed board, and the spaces were to be filled in with a CNC router!

 

Every boy is different! Your SPL is looking for a level of accountability that his PL's did not expect to give. He has every right to expect it, but PL's are on a learning-curve and he has to help them surmount it.

 

Here's where I have issues.  Are those being served the SPL or the patrol members.  Why is the SPL looking for a level of accountability, shouldn't those in the patrol be the ones that are looking for that?  If the PL is on his learning curve, shouldn't his directives be from the patrol members who are affected by his leadership?  If anything, the PL should be looking to the SPL for help in meeting the needs as defined by his patrol members.

 

Bottom line:

He has to figure out the best carrot, they have to decide what stick they'll heed.

He has to figure out the best way to help the PL be successful in his leadership.  The carrot-stick game is not necessary

They'll both have to figure out where they will compromise.

The PL needs to figure out how to implement any SPL help suggestions into his stule of leadership.

You might have to figure out how many sandbars this boat is allowed to hit.

There's always going to be rocks and sandbars, as long as you don't poke a hole in the bottom of the boat, you can still keep going.

 

Maybe I might be a little "out there" but life outside the box is a lot better than being stuck in the box.

 

Actually the PLs for the most part follow the expectation. Two don't, four do. The PLs know what is expected. The two in question are the biggest complainers with something is "boring".

 

Who defines the expectation?  The Committee? SM/Adults? SPL? PL? patrol members?  My vote is with the patrol members.

 

The SPL's carrot is to encourage them to do their duty. The patrol members have a bigger stick than the SPL.    They get this twice a year.  They get this every time the patrol meets.   Not a big deal. His idea was to have the PLs do the work at patrol meeting and take to the PLC...but not tell them prior to announcing the agenda.

 

The SPL is there to support the PL meet the needs of his patrol. 

 

SPL is willing to get them started with ideas (he has tons). Patrol members have more than tons.  That's his compromise. He figures he's done the research, they can pull it together. He and the patrol advisor Troop Guide are around if the PL needs help.

 

If the work goes undone then I will step in. If the work goes undone then the patrol members merely select a new PL.  That's one big freakin' leverage stick with a humungous carrot attached to the end.  The SPL has a few back up meetings in his back pocket, so the work will be done. The PLs will be brought in to chat about their POR and being at risk of not getting credit as completing meeting plans is part of their POR. The proverbial shot across the bow...usually works. Want the SPL to work this out before I have to step in.  Why are the SPL and SM involved in the operation of the patrol?  If they are, why have a PL?  The patrol members put this guy into the leadership of their group.  He does well, he gets credit for it.  If not he gets replaced and someone else gets credit for it.  No shot across the bow, no second chances, no steping in.  The patrol decides its own fate and the fate of their selected leadership.  They put him in, they can take him out.  Knowing this, I have VERY little problem with boys becoming great leaders. My PL's are the highest ranking officers in my troop.  They know it and they protect their position by doing great leadership.  Nobody has to do anything except help them be successful if they or their patrol members ask for it.

[qwazse]

Actually the PLs for the most part follow the expectation. Two don't, four do. The PLs know what is expected. The two in question are the biggest complainers with something is "boring".The SPL's carrot is to encourage them to do their duty. They get this twice a year. ...

I don't think that's a big enough carrot. (I'm ignoring @@Stosh's condescending attitude towards my metaphor.)

Every month, he needs to recognize the successes of the patrols in front of the entire troop. This can be as simple as having each PL report his patrol's accomplishments. Then distribute attaboys personally to each patrol, offering to up the game of the laggards if their report was lackluster. It could be as complex as an "outstanding program" totem to award and hang on a patrol's flag.

If your complainers are like any I know, they are the what's-in-it-for-me types. If so, about the only way to get to them is to point out the fruits of their labors.

[MattR]

Hope his request is clear. He wants troop meetings to be fun and to make it worth the boys' time to attend. Poor planning recently has lead to some confusion at meetings. He knows that poor planning can lead to boring meetings and a drop in attendance, hence his note. Any thoughts, comments, suggestions will be sent back to him for consideration. Thanks!

I see this type of problem all the time. It's the problem. It's not a constant struggle so much as a constant learning process for the scouts. It has less to do with filling out paperwork and more about being prepared. Scouts seem to be notorious for not wanting to think a problem through. At the same time, leadership requires understanding what's coming. A great example is making a menu. They want hot dogs for lunch so that's what they write down. How many? Buns? Mustard? A side? Also, their writing skills are horrible. Writing is about organizing and thinking things through, so, no surprise they struggle with it.

 

Since you have a great SPL (he cares about this problem!) this is what I'd suggest to him. There are a few issues. First, scouts are inherently lazy when they don't see a reason. Second, they likely don't have the skills to work through the problem they have. Third, feedback is important for a leader to get motivated. Success will solve the first issue, so don't worry about it. As for skills, I'd start two weeks out before their meeting and talk to the PL (talk, not text or email, face to face). All you need to do is ask the right kinds of questions. You just want them to think the problem through. Questions with a single word answer are bad, make them talk. What is the plan? Where does this change from normal? Encourage change. It's good and fun. But it needs to be thought through. Once there's a basic plan you can start asking more questions. While you're getting answers start filling in the paperwork for him. Eventually you can get him to do that but for now, give him a hand. He will appreciate your help. It's likely that 2 weeks before he won't have all the answers. Give him some homework. Repeat this a week before. Hopefully you'll have a plan. One thing about plans, though. It's okay if they aren't followed exactly. Things change and that can be good or bad. The important point of a plan is to get the leader prepared. If he knows what he wants and it's likely to work then people will follow him. That is the goal, not the plan.

 

The third issue is feedback and review. A quick review will bring up the things that didn't go right. Something I've just started is once a quarter we do a big thorns and roses session for each patrol. It takes some skill to do this so most PLs don't have the skill to do this on their own. It's all about asking leading questions. Don't ask how's it going, ask what's going right and what's going wrong. Make a big deal about what's going right and any progress. For things going wrong, don't lay blame, ask the patrol what they can do to make it better. This has to be a very positive thing. There aren't failures so much as opportunity. You have to believe in them. If you believe in them then they will believe in themselves. That is motivation. That's the oil that gets the whole thing moving. The bottom line is using the Oath and Law to help them realize the promise of scouting. Good luck. I'm sure Mr [krampus] will help you out if you ask him.

[Krampus]

It has less to do with filling out paperwork and more about being prepared. Scouts seem to be notorious for not wanting to think a problem through. At the same time, leadership requires understanding what's coming. A great example is making a menu. They want hot dogs for lunch so that's what they write down. How many? Buns? Mustard? A side? Also, their writing skills are horrible. Writing is about organizing and thinking things through, so, no surprise they struggle with it.

You're right, and menu planning is a prefect example.

 

Had an SPL watching his patrols plan a while back. All the PLs were honor role students. PLs did exactly what you described -- filled out the generic menu, sans details like quantity. The SPL walks past and says, "Tom, you're an honor roll student, right?" Tom replies, "Yup! In all subjects. Straight As!" The SPL retorts, "Would you ever half-way fill out an exam? [insert blank look from the PL] Because that's what you're doing when you don't complete the menu plan and duty roster fully."

 

Second, they likely don't have the skills to work through the problem they have.

These guys have the skills. I just continue to see smart, trained teenagers all standing around complaining about being cold, when the 11 year-old Scout goes to his tent and puts on his jacket. I really thinks this attitude is a byproduct of parents over-catering to their kids the past 20 years.

 

Third, feedback is important for a leader to get motivated. Success will solve the first issue, so don't worry about it. As for skills, I'd start two weeks out before their meeting and talk to the PL (talk, not text or email, face to face). All you need to do is ask the right kinds of questions. You just want them to think the problem through. Questions with a single word answer are bad, make them talk. What is the plan? Where does this change from normal? Encourage change.

Getting the youth leaders to learn this is the struggle, but our troop training covers it pretty well. We give them guides to stay on track.

 

The third issue is feedback and review. A quick review will bring up the things that didn't go right.

Agreed. Immediate feedback is always key. Otherwise the moment is lost.

 

EDIT: I marked this questions as solved because I didn't want to forget this point, but also to note all the good advice above it. Does not mean that anything BELOW this post is not also excellent.

Edited December 17, 2015 by Krampus

[blw2]

We run our troop in somewhat of a Pack model.  The troop (pack) meets as a whole once a month.  The rest of the time there is a brief opening followed by patrol (den) meetings where the focus is more on patrol member needs. 

 

The troop meeting is oriented more towards a general program which might include the D.A.R.E. officer coming in and doing a presentation to meet the annual drug and alcohol requiremnt.  It might be a Red Cross Volunteer coming in and doing a CPR refresher, those items that are of interest to the whole troop.

 

The patrol meeting is orented towards the needs of the patrol, menu planning for next camporee, advancement for members if needed, patrol outing, etc.

 

In my old troop with multiple patrols, there wasn't an SPL, but the PL's rotated amongst themselves the troop activity for the month.   

 

Along with this there was a general troop outing and a service project as well.  That, like the troop program, rotated with the patrols to research and set up.

 

With my new troop, there is only one patrol, but the format of one biggy program (troop), one outing, one service project and the rest of the time is whatever the boys want to do for the evening.

 

When i read the initial post, "ideas of how to motivate scouts"

And then read that they are putting one patrol in charge of the agenda for the month....

My immediate thought was sort of along the lines of what Stosh said.

 

I'm thinking, why do that at all?  maybe the boys would be better motivated if they were doing what THEY wanted to DO....with the idea in mind that "Scouting Happens at The Patrol level"

why not suggest that the patrols decide what they want to do or need to do?

Let each patrol plan their own destiny every month. 

 

If one patrol wants to just hang, or shoot hoops, or something, great!

If the other patrol needs to work on a skill, great!

If the 3rd patrol needs to plan their patrol hike coming up next month, fine.

Or, if there is a troop level event coming up, ALL the patrols might agree that everyone should be working on the plan for that.

 

Let the PLC and the SPL coordinate overlaps.  Let them decide if they want to share resources with the other patrols for the event planning for example, or if they need to work on their own patrol level stuff..  The PLC could also coordinate things like shared skills work, if more than one patrol wanted to work on a particular skill, for example.

 

My thought -  NOTHING motivates a person more than doing what they themselves are interested in.

[Krampus]

@@blw2, nice idea but now you seem to have 6 things going on to manage. I can toss this past the SPL and see what he says.

 

In any event, the boys are doing what they want because they are responsible for bringing the ideas to the PL who brings them to the PLC.