Feel a little hurt and angry

[Eagledad]

This has been a very sad thread for many reasons, but I was thinking of you Renax as I was driving to work this morning and how you wanted more than anything for your actions in this situation to be the right actions for your son to witness from his dad. How much better would our culture be if all parents made the same effort. As a scout leader and trainer, I expressed many times over the years how scouting is the chance for boys to learn the kind of character habits their parents want them to have when they are fathers, husbands and community leaders. And many witnesses have told me that scouting has done exactly that. But in the last couple years my 32 year old son has been taking the time to call and just chat. And maybe it's because he is about to make me a grandfather for the first time, but he has expressed more than once how appreciative he is of the way his parent raised him. So while I will always champion for a youth program that builds citizens of character and leaders of integrity, there is no replacement for good parents.

 

Well Done

 

Barry

Edited December 15, 2015 by Eagledad

[David CO]

It is really not a good idea to announce a promotion until it becomes official.  Any number of things can happen.

 

As a young teacher/coach, I was elated when the principal informed me that I was to be promoted to head coach.  Unfortunately, the promotion never went through.  The school board felt I was too young.  

 

I was angry and hurt, but I wasn't publicly humiliated.   I hadn't told anyone that I was anticipating a promotion.  I did get the job a few years later.

 

I sympathize with Renax, but I can't help feeling that part of the mistake was his.  He shouldn't have announced his promotion until it was official.

 

The saddest thing about all this is that, had he not jumped the gun by prematurely announcing his promotion, Renax would still be involved in his troop and would very likely have become the next Scoutmaster.

[Krampus]

@@David CO, his comments seem to indicate he wanted the role to change things. Not given the chance, and the dishonesty with which the situation was handled (and their position on boy-led/PM), led him to make the decision. Doubt he would have stuck around given all this and his comments about the adult leaders. 

 

He was trying to help, they didn't want his vision so the went another direction.

[David CO]

I disagree with the assertion that the CC was dishonest.  

[Stosh]

People seem to be totally surprised when political things like this happen in the troop/packs/crews.  At one time or another, every unit goes through these types of things.  The more adult oriented the unit is, the more apt it is to happen.  The boys generally are not saavy as adults, neither are they experienced in such behavior, and if they are, their buddies' naivite usually brings it to a halt.  They generally don't have the experience that goes along with sophisticated manipulation.  They are more into self absorption and worry more about themselves and what others think than devising plans to take over and run a group such as a unit.  A lot of adults have this type of confidence, not many youth do.

 

Yes, jumping ship will help for a while, but eventually the sludge from others will eventually spill over into the new Nervana.  I find that those that get away with it for any length of time do one of two things.  They bully and power their way through every situation or they accumulate allies so that they leverage the situation in their favor.

 

People who don't do one of these two options either run the risk of getting bulldozed or they have to leave the area.  @@Renax127 has now become fully aware of how this works.  It's nothing more than political posturing.  To go to another unit will require starting the process all over from square one with a new set of political powers.

 

The one thing that is basically true in 99% of Boy Scout units is that although the consensus of talk-the-talk is not the reality of walk-the-walk.  The reality of boy led, patrol method is seldom achieved and never long-lived.  The question one needs to ask themselves is how much political BS can one handle at any given time in any given social grouping?

 

Renax127 will probably never find his ideal boy-led unit, but there are those out there that at least struggle at making the attempt to be.  Is this unit boy-led?  If not is anyone on-board with trying to be one?  Are the boys wanting to be boy-led? 

 

First visit: Are you a boy-led unit?

 

No, but we're trying to move in that direction, but having a ton of trouble, the boys aren't ready for such a change yet.

 

Now that's the answer one is looking for, join up, roll up your sleeves and get to work.

[KenD500]

Are there 5 Scouts in the Troop that want Boy-Led?  Maybe you should start another Troop.

[Stosh]

Are there 5 Scouts in the Troop that want Boy-Led?  Maybe you should start another Troop.

 

That would surely offer another option for boys in the area if there are no other boy led units around. 

 

Keep it in mind, however, there's a lot more work involved with starting a unit than having 5 boys interested.  One needs 5 boys dediccated to the idea, too.  It's a challenging row to hoe.

[Renax127]

 

Renax127 will probably never find his ideal boy-led unit, but there are those out there that at least struggle at making the attempt to be.  Is this unit boy-led?  If not is anyone on-board with trying to be one?  Are the boys wanting to be boy-led? 

 

First visit: Are you a boy-led unit?

 

No, but we're trying to move in that direction, but having a ton of trouble, the boys aren't ready for such a change yet.

 

Now that's the answer one is looking for, join up, roll up your sleeves and get to work.

 

Now that's the answer one is looking for, join up, roll up your sleeves and get to work.

Not really looking for perfect, just looking for trying hard and acknowledging that it's a goal to strive for not something that can't be done. More than willing to help out however I can toward that goal, knowing it will never be reached not really gonna try to deal with intentional adult roadblocks anymore.

[Renax127]

The saddest thing about all this is that, had he not jumped the gun by prematurely announcing his promotion, Renax would still be involved in his troop and would very likely have become the next Scoutmaster.

Maybe I didn't make this clear, the current SM and CC were also telling people (including the DE) I was the new SM as late as two weeks ago, I jumped no gun.

[Stosh]

Not really looking for perfect, just looking for trying hard and acknowledging that it's a goal to strive for not something that can't be done. More than willing to help out however I can toward that goal, knowing it will never be reached not really gonna try to deal with intentional adult roadblocks anymore.

 

Stop and think for a moment..... if the unit was a perfectly boy led, patrol method troop, there would be no real place for you.....  Sitting around the campfire drinking coffee all day does get boring after awhile.  Adult Association is needed.  Are you going to become one of the boys and work with them as a peer rather than a adult?  When I deal with my boys either I'm a boy along with them or they are adults along with me.  Not much middle ground there.  As soon as I slip into the adult/youth mode, I'm cooked.

[Krampus]

I disagree with the assertion that the CC was dishonest.  

 

 

Maybe I didn't make this clear, the current SM and CC were also telling people (including the DE) I was the new SM as late as two weeks ago, I jumped no gun.

@@David CO, if you read the thread you'd see here just how dishonest the CC and others were being. They have a meeting without @@Renax127? They don't take him aside and have a talk as to why he is not being made SM?

 

If that's honest I'd hate to see your definition of dishonest.

[desertrat77]

@@David CO, if you read the thread you'd see here just how dishonest the CC and others were being. They have a meeting without @@Renax127? They don't take him aside and have a talk as to why he is not being made SM?

 

If that's honest I'd hate to see your definition of dishonest.

+1

[blw2]

People seem to be totally surprised when political things like this happen in the troop/packs/crews.  At one time or another, every unit goes through these types of things.  The more adult oriented the unit is, the more apt it is to happen.  The boys generally are not saavy as adults, neither are they experienced in such behavior, and if they are, their buddies' naivite usually brings it to a halt.  They generally don't have the experience that goes along with sophisticated manipulation.  They are more into self absorption and worry more about themselves and what others think than devising plans to take over and run a group such as a unit.  A lot of adults have this type of confidence, not many youth do.

 

Yes, jumping ship will help for a while, but eventually the sludge from others will eventually spill over into the new Nervana.  I find that those that get away with it for any length of time do one of two things.  They bully and power their way through every situation or they accumulate allies so that they leverage the situation in their favor.

 

People who don't do one of these two options either run the risk of getting bulldozed or they have to leave the area.  @@Renax127 has now become fully aware of how this works.  It's nothing more than political posturing.  To go to another unit will require starting the process all over from square one with a new set of political powers.

 

The one thing that is basically true in 99% of Boy Scout units is that although the consensus of talk-the-talk is not the reality of walk-the-walk.  The reality of boy led, patrol method is seldom achieved and never long-lived.  The question one needs to ask themselves is how much political BS can one handle at any given time in any given social grouping?

 

Renax127 will probably never find his ideal boy-led unit, but there are those out there that at least struggle at making the attempt to be.  Is this unit boy-led?  If not is anyone on-board with trying to be one?  Are the boys wanting to be boy-led? 

 

First visit: Are you a boy-led unit?

 

No, but we're trying to move in that direction, but having a ton of trouble, the boys aren't ready for such a change yet.

 

Now that's the answer one is looking for, join up, roll up your sleeves and get to work.

 

I don't really understand the idea that "the boys aren't ready"

The boys may not know what it really means.

They might know that the authority given to them is only surface, or an act

& I would even understand that some of the older boys m just not want to do the work.

 

But I've gotta imagine almost any group of boys would jump at the chance to be able to decide their own fates, make their own plans, and do what it is that they want to do.

 

I agree though it's unlikely to ever find that perfect troop.

This has been exactly my dilemma.  I spend more time here and elsewhere researching and gaining a better understanding of what things could be, than most scouters I know.  Most seem to march along on whatever it is they have always done.

But while I have interest and energy, I won't be in a trusted position to make really effective change.  I may never have the opportunity to really take on a job for my son's troop that is really in a key position.  Overall, I might even buy the argument taht I'm not necessarily the best person for those jobs, but at the same time I might be more energetic than others, more knowledgeable than others.

 

So, it's sad and a bit frustrating that my son will be very unlikely to ever gain the benefit of a truly boy lead program.... and there's really not much i can do about it.  But like I wrote before, I'm coming to realize that odds are good that he'll get some good out of it if the troop is at least doing some of it right.

 

Renax, I think you're in the same situation, just a bit further along the path than I am...

 

It'll probably take you while to let go of it... it took me a long time... but I hope you can gain some distance from it... the adult junk I mean....

[perdidochas]

Thanks but I'm in Florida. I admit I should have known something was up when none of them drank coffee I mean who does that.

 

If you're in Pensacola, PM me.  We have a troop that is pretty close to boy-led, and we need more adults who are outdoorsmen. We also have need for an SM in a couple of months.

Edited December 15, 2015 by perdidochas

[Stosh]

  My boys have a tendency to do what they did last year because they know that it works and they had a good time.  While I'm not involved in the planning of troop or patrol activities, I do take a lot of pictures of my personal adventures.  When I go kayaking in the area, I take pictures.  When I go camping, I take pictures.  When I go on a trip, I take pictures.  I'm "elderly" so I have an excuse to drag out my picture book and show off my grandkids.  But instead I show off bike trails around San Francisco, Museums around Seattle, hiking trails around Boulder, kayaking routes through the Everglades..... It does get the boys thinking that there is a lot more to life than the little box they live in at the present time.  If I were to put on a preso of my pictures of all the places I have gone to, It would fill up multiple long evenings of boring adventures all over the place.   

 

If the boys aren't interested, I've done my due diligence, but I don't cotton to the idea that what they are planning is boring, because my response to that is always, "Whose fault is that?"