mertiorious action

[blw2]

This post is mostly a bit of bragging about my son, so my apologies for that.

 

Over Thanksgiving break, my kids were all swimming in a hotel pool.  My wife and I were poolside, but not in the water.  We were noticing that our youngest, a 4 year old, seemed to have almost forgotten how to swim since summer.  She was swimming like a fish a couple months ago.  Now she was getting around but not so well.

 

Anyway, at one point she's in just a bit over her head, and i see that she's in a dangerous situation.  I moved to the edge, just in case.  She's seriously close to breathing in the wet stuff.  I was about 1/2 second away from jumping in, when i see my son calmly crossing the pool to get to her, from where he was playing with his other sister.  He would get to her before me.  He noticed the situation and acted without my telling him, or really any commotion or calling from anyone.  Just the silent and nearly invisible struggle of his sister.  He got to her before i jumped, but it was close!  A bit of coughing but all is good.  I was close and would have have gotten to my daughter in time, but that half second might have meant a more serious situation for sure.

 

A bit later I got to thinking about these boys we read about in Boys Life each month doing basically this same sort of thing.  So, I said asked my son what he thought about my looking into submitting him or a medal.   I forget exactly what he said, but he totally blew it off, saying basically that he didn't do anything all that special.  No big deal.  Those medals are for something more.... 

 

After reading the requirements for the medal, I decided against pursuing it.  He didn't want it, and he wasn't really exhibiting an "uncommon degree of concern" or showing "exceptional" character.  He was just being a good brother and a good person showing what I would call a common degree of concern and showing good character.  Even still, I'm proud of him for that, and I'm proud of him thinking of it as just doing a good turn (not his words, but he's heard that phrase enough)

 

I just got to thinking though, this might be an interesting topic.....

what would you define as uncommon concern, or exceptional character.

[Krampus]

I am sure if you submit someone in charge will define it for you...as to whether your son's situation applies.

[qwazse]

This is indeed one of those "know it when you see it" kind of things.

 

Especially when it comes to aquatics, we should all be in the business of forestalling death. And from your son's perspective he was doing what he was trained (formally and informally) to do whenever you're in a pool. As a life guard, I'm trained to do a little bit more ... but our situations are the same. We go about our day making sure everyone is fine. In a pool you almost expect someone to have trouble, so you go about your business with one eye toward preventing a bad situation (mammals thinking they're fish) from ending badly.

 

Part of training backpackers is to get in the habit of considering the slowest person in the party, making sure each load is balanced on each back and across the hikers, keeping and eye on frayed equipment, knowing where the 1st aid kid is, who's got a neckerchief to spare, etc ... Proper routine attentiveness will avert ruinous calamity. So, for instance, splinting up an injured hiker found along a trail and adjusting your routine to make sure rescue arrives is noble, but really not out of the ordinary.

 

It's when you perform that way when you are out of your routine (e.g. you're in your Sunday best and hear a toddler-sized splash from a supposedly empty pool some distance away, or at a scenic rest area and barely hear a cry for "help" 200 feet below ...). The times and places where that "mentally awake at all times" kicks in for a scout while in the majority of others that "still small voice" would be ignored ... that's where we start to identify that "uncommon concern and exceptional character."

Edited December 9, 2015 by qwazse

[walk in the woods]

A curious question no doubt.  Would it be "uncommon concern" if he had done the same thing for a stranger?  

[Stosh]

Having run with the EMT's for many years, I'm surprised the number of times I have had to use my nolonger certified skills on people.   CPR on someone 3 times since dropping certification, 2 Heimlich rescues of small children in restaurants, and first on the scene for 5 car accidents with severe bleeding.  Just hauled a young monther into the hospital last night after a fall with major knee damage.

 

What would be consider meritorious to one might be nothing more than just a Good Turn to someone else.  Judging these situation is purely subjective.

 

@@blw2 It's up to you what you decide whether it was meritorious or not.  Just don't be upset if not everyone else thinks so.  He's your son, you have a right to be proud of his actions.

[Eagle94-A1]

I would say go ahead and put him in, but after filling out one of those forms recently, you need their approval to complete the form.

 

My understanding is that UNLESS they are professionals, i.e lifeguards, EMTs, etc, ANY lifesaving action, no matter how big or small can qualify. I know the form for the Honor Medal and Medal of Merit is the same, so don't let that scare you.

 

There is an approval process, don't know how long that will take, but hopefully less than 2 years. I would really like to attend the ceremony if the guy who pulled me out of the ocean back in August is approved. And he will be in this area only for 2 more years.

[Stosh]

Not all lifeguards, EMT's, etc. are professional.  Most small towns have volunteer EMT's, First Responders, Fire Departments, etc.  I was nationally certified for 15 years and never got paid a penny.  All training, continuing education, and jump kit equipment was at my expense. 

 

There is a lot of grey area in this whole issue and one of the reasons why one needs the approval of the person is because of the potential embarrassment that might result from a denied application.

[vumbi]

what would you define as uncommon concern, or exceptional character.

 

To respond to this original question, I'd have to take it on a case-by-case basis, considering the circumstances as well as the action. Lending a hand to get someone to safety doesn't seem to meet the 'uncommon' part in and of itself. But...

Putting oneself at some kind of risk in order to do it, however, does cross the line to 'uncommon'. My two cents.

Edited December 10, 2015 by vumbi

[Eagle94-A1]

Stosh,

 

By professional, I meant anyone with high level knowledge, skills, abilities, and certifications who have a legal obligation to perform tthe needed skill.

[Krampus]

Stosh,

 

By professional, I meant anyone with high level knowledge, skills, abilities, and certifications who have a legal obligation to perform tthe needed skill.

 

Isn't that usually paid professionals? My brother-in-law is a former EMT (like @Stosh) but he is under no legal obligation to render any assistance.

[00Eagle]

I'd submit the award form.  The form is first processed by the local Council Advancement Committee.  I'm sure they'd rather look at one of these forms than an Eagle appeal ;-)

 

Once there, they can decide whether recognition is warranted: a local council Certificate of Merit or forwarding to National for higher awards (National Certificate of Merit, medals).

[qwazse]

Yeah, sure, fill out the form. After all, there's not enough meaningless paperwork out there already.

 

It's not just your ink and paper (a multi-page form asking for a lot of detail regarding any incident). You need to gather witness statements -- including a statement from the rescued person. When you apply for this award for a scout our scouter, everyone involved in the incident has to buy in that his action was a big deal.

 

If you have your doubts, don't waste other people's time.

[Stosh]

Isn't that usually paid professionals? My brother-in-law is a former EMT (like @Stosh) but he is under no legal obligation to render any assistance.

@@Krampus

@@Eagle94-A1

 

As Krampus' brother-in-law states, even as a nationally certified EMT-A volunteer, I was under no legal obligation to render any assistance whatsoever.  That was covered in the training explicitly.  Regardless of the training, unless one is being paid, one falls under the Good Samaritan Laws just like every other person in the world.  One is not legally obligated to endanger oneself either which EMT's do every time they run a red light, every time they driver faster than the speed limit, everytime they get a call out into a blizzard where the roads are shut down and no travel is allowed, every time they get a mental health call when weapons are involved, every time they encounter a hazardous materials diamond at a truck/railroad accident, and the list goes on and on.

 

So the bottom line -> If you are the only one on the rescue crew that will act and the others hesitate and stay back, is your action meritorious or stupid?    Ever wonder why heros are reluctant to come forward?  I'm not, I did some pretty stupid things back when I was young and foolish running with the Ambulance crew..... Does that make me proud of what I did, or was it just stupid.  Either way, if someone lived to see another day, it was worth the risk.

[blw2]

To respond to this original question, I'd have to take it on a case-by-case basis, considering the circumstances as well as the action. Lending a hand to get someone to safety doesn't seem to meet the 'uncommon' part in and of itself. But...

Putting oneself at some kind of risk in order to do it, however, does cross the line to 'uncommon'. My two cents.

see, that's stepping into another grey area....  the personal risk I mean....

 Honor Medal in part, "demonstrated unusual heroism and skill in saving or attempting to save a life at considerable risk to self."

 

I'd submit the award form.  The form is first processed by the local Council Advancement Committee.  I'm sure they'd rather look at one of these forms than an Eagle appeal ;-)

 

Once there, they can decide whether recognition is warranted: a local council Certificate of Merit or forwarding to National for higher awards (National Certificate of Merit, medals).

 

At first I was leaning that way.  I do think that it was a legit save on his part. She was in a serious situation for sure.  It wasn't one of those not really so serious things that some folks (smothers) might over react to...

But, I don't know why, but it just doesn't seem quite there.

maybe it's because I was right there on top of it backing him up, or maybe because he's so humble about it.... I don't know why....

 

Anyway, that's not why I started the thread.... I was thinking more of a general discussion around these grey area criteria....

[Stosh]

There's a ton of shades of grey on this whole issue.

 

Risking one's life?  Every time a police officer pulls over a speeder on the freeway, he is risking his life.  Every time a fireman responds to a house fire, he's risking his life.  Every time an EMT responds to a freeway accident or house fire with injuries, they are exposed to the same dangers.  And in our letigitous society, every time an innocent bystander, Good Samaritan or good neighbor steps forward, they run the same risk as anyone else.  But unlike the paid professional, if they are sued, the money comes from their own pockets that was supposed to feed, clothe and shelter their family and allow them solace in their old age. 

 

If K of C no longer wishes to run their organization at that level of risk, then moving into parishes is a really good idea.