K of C dropping charters

[Eagle94-A1]

I admit I have not been active as a knight for a while, so I do not know what is going on.

 

I can say this though. The KofC are not under direct parish control, but do have control from religious authorities. Although they do a lot for the local parish. Some parishes do not have a KofC council, and some KofC councils will have there own club houses separate from the parish property. I know that one KofC parish I was in had such a club house, and that is where the troop met. KofC viewed Scouting as part of their ''patriotism'' obligation, and only a few Scouts were members of the Catholic Church.

 

That said, I have mixed emotions on this. Taking it at face value, I see where the focus should be on the church and its members, so the move has a non-legal reason for it. But I also see where it can be seen as a move to protect the KofC from lawsuits since they may been seen as a civic group. So the move maybe how the KofC will protect themselves and their obligation to follow Catholic orthodoxy, while continueing to support Scouting.

 

One concern I have is anti-Catholic bias and bigotry. You would be surprised at how many folks do not associate the KofC with the Catholic Church. They would let their kids join a KofC chartered unit, but ''hell will freeze over before I go to meetings at a [)(+!¦% Catholic Church.''

[Krampus]

Still so many heathens to convert.

[JustThinking]

That threat was always there.

True, but in the past how many photographers and bakers had been put out of business and legally harassed into bankruptcy because of their conscience? If someone gets a burr and goes after a church, I don't have any faith that the powers that be will do anything other than throw-up their hands saying "It ain't us!  We love you!  It's those mean, nasty, Christians that are doing it!  Here is a pitch-folk, let's go get them!"  Looking at things from that angle, it makes sense that the KoC as civic organizations are moving the troops to the churches in an attempt to provide some legal cover for what will come.

[Stosh]

@@JustThinking

 

Christians have been persecuted for the past 2,000 years.  Jews for even longer.  The Chistians, however, came to the New World to get away from it in Europe.  But as those in power refuse to honor the law of the land and the oath they took to protect that law, the persecutions start all over again.  (Ecclesiastes 1:9) 

[CalicoPenn]

 

 

Christians have been persecuted for the past 2,000 years.  Jews for even longer.  The Chistians, however, came to the New World to get away from it in Europe.  But as those in power refuse to honor the law of the land and the oath they took to protect that law, the persecutions start all over again.  (Ecclesiastes 1:9) 

 

 

Christianity is the dominant religion in the world, with around 2.2 billion adherents or 31.50% of the population.  The next nearest is Islam at 1.6 billion adherents, or 22.32% of the population.

 

So who are all these people persecuting Christians, especially the Christians that came to the new world to get away from persecution of Christians in Europe?  While there is little doubt that there are Christians in pre-dominantly Islamic areas that are being persecuted, Europe has never been predominantly Islamic so who persecuted Christians there?

 

Oh wait, I know - Christians have been persecuting fellow Christians for 2000 years - they've just done it by denomination with folks claiming that other Christians are'nt real Christians because they don't follow the same beliefs and rituals that they do.

 

Tell you what, when Christians start having rocks thrown through their windows in Texas because of their religion, or are beaten up in their stores because of the religion, then we'll talk about Christians being persecuted in this country.

[Krampus]

Look at all that hand-holding going on in Syria between the Muslim factions. Warms the heart. 

[Stosh]

Hypocisy is not limited to just Christianity, Islam and Judeahism have their fair share as well.  But measuring one's religion by one's response?  Threaten a Jew in the Midwest America, it'll never makes the local news.  Threaten a Jew in Jerusalem, it won't make the news either, but the outcome would be worlds apart.  It applies to all religions.  There are those that live according to their religious tenets and those that don't.  Like I said hipocrisy is not limited to just the Christians. 

 

A lot of it has to do with the level of tolerance.  Jews are tolerant because their numbers are small and tend to be taken advantage of.  Hence only Jewish nation in the world is the small country of Israel.  Christians tend (but not always) to be more tolerant than others at least on certain days of the week...maybe.  Some religions simply are not tolerant of others at all.

 

For all the Latin buffs out there, I measure religion on their construtive or destructive nature.  Do they build or do they destroy?  One can put labels on them all they want, but the true nature of religion is not it's title, but it's constructive or destructive nature of it's members.  Mother Theresa didn't get her world reknown notariety because of her destructive nature, Son of Sam got a lot of press too,  I do believe both claimed the Christianity label.  One of them had to be lying.  Kinda have to take it one person at a time.  All Jews are good?  No  All Jews are bad?  NO.  How about other religions?  Same can be said for any of them.  Each person is to be judged by their constructive or destructive nature and forget about the titles they really don't tell the truth.

[Sentinel947]

I hope those units can find new charter partners. My Archdiocese is very supportive of Scouting, and nearly every parish around where I live has a Troop.

[Peregrinator]

I can't see the church turning down any units.

Spose the local parish has a Trail Life troop. Or suppose (this is probably more likely) that the local parish doesn't have the space for a BSA troop to meet. That might be, after all, why the troop was sponsored by the KofC in the first place - perhaps they used the hall as a meeting space because the local parish or parishes didn't have the room.

 

I just don't see this as a simple reorganization.

[Krampus]

What if a near-Earth objects hits us tomorrow? What if no one re-charters?

 

Let's see how this plays out. The KoC is simply working with the parish and diocese to consolidate all youth groups under one umbrella. They didn't do it screw scouting. So, yes, it was a simple reorg.

 

However, no one has ever said that there is not SOME consolidation during ANY reorg. Some units may not find a parish, but I suspect you might see a unit merger OR they will find another CO. 

[John-in-KC]

K of C isn't the only organization.

 

The Lutheran Church-Missouri Synod has pulled the plug on its relationship with BSA.  It's told parishes if they wish to continue chartering, to seek local legal advice.

[Merlyn_LeRoy]

..in the past how many photographers and bakers had been put out of business and legally harassed into bankruptcy because of their conscience?

 

 

None - it was because they were legally obligated as a public accommodation to serve the public and refused -- the same, legally, as refusing to serve a mixed-race marriage if it goes against the owner's conscience.

[Peregrinator]

What if a near-Earth objects hits us tomorrow? What if no one re-charters?

What if we stuck to hypotheticals that weren't statistically impossible?

 

Let's see how this plays out. The KoC is simply working with the parish and diocese to consolidate all youth groups under one umbrella. They didn't do it screw scouting. So, yes, it was a simple reorg.

I'm sure they didn't do it to screw the BSA troops they're sponsoring. I'm just pointing out that it is not simple.

 

However, no one has ever said that there is not SOME consolidation during ANY reorg. Some units may not find a parish, but I suspect you might see a unit merger OR they will find another CO.

And some troops might fold rather than charter with a non-Catholic CO.

[Krampus]

@@Peregrinator things go away in a reorg. Sometimes a lot. Sometimes a few. Sometimes nothing. It is not like the KoC and the Catholic church pulled support entirely from their units the like LCMS; so in that comparison it is a simple reorg.

 

Now, if 30% of the units don't find new homes, that's a problem. If, however, 30% of the units consolidate and find new homes, that's not a problem. That would be a good thing because you are making weak units stronger.

 

In my district nearly 20% of units had to find new homes or had their relationship with their CO drastically altered by the 2013 membership change. Another 10% lost their charter with this year's change. Many are still looking for homes but may have to fold.

[Peregrinator]

It is not like the KoC and the Catholic church pulled support entirely from their units the like LCMS; so in that comparison it is a simple reorg.

I'm not sure that comparison is accurate. The LCMS dissolved their MOU but they left the question of sponsorship up to each congregation. The KofC didn't do that.