Disruptive Scout

[Rock Doc]

Until recently we had a very disruptive Scout in the troop and tried to coach him to change his behavior using Scoutmaster conferences, Boards of Review, and parent meetings. However, the root of his behavior seemed due to lack of parental discipline (he could do no wrong in their eyes), and no amount of counseling improved the situation. Prior to us asking him to leave, he joined another local troop. But now he wants to return. So, given our history I'm reluctant to start over again. Anyone experienced something similar?

[NJCubScouter]

How long has it been since he left the troop?

 

How serious was his misbehavior in the first place? Did he pose a threat to the safety of others?

 

Has anyone spoken to see if he recognizes the error of his previous ways, and has changed his behavior accordingly?

 

How was his behavior in the other troop, and why does he want to leave them?

 

I guess all of these questions (and maybe others) are part of a larger question: how much likelihood is there that if this Scout returns, he will be a productive and well-behaved member of the troop?

[sst3rd]

Roc Doc,

 

    Yes. Several times over 33 years. Just say "NO." Don't let anyone change your mind.

 

It's simple. He kept doing what he wanted to do but got tired of being counseled to death with you. So he went somewhere else. They made things tough for him there, so he wants to come back. Don't let that happen.

 

sst3rd

[Rock Doc]

How long has it been since he left the troop?

How serious was his misbehavior in the first place? Did he pose a threat to the safety of others? 《He left 18 months ago. No physical threat, but a foul-mouthed bully, with a habit of stealing》

Has anyone spoken to see if he recognizes the error of his previous ways, and has changed his behavior accordingly? 《He was dismissed from NYLT this summer》

How was his behavior in the other troop, and why does he want to leave them? 《Can't speak to his behavior, but he wants to return because our troop is more active》

I guess all of these questions (and maybe others) are part of a larger question: how much likelihood is there that if this Scout returns, he will be a productive and well-behaved member of the troop?

《It's unlikely that his behavior has changed much. I'm just not aware of troops saying "no" to youth wishing to join. 》

[Cambridgeskip]

Other side of the Atlantic but....

 

I had a disruptive scout who jumped before he was pushed. He wasn't a danger to anyone, it was the persistent low level aggravation and disruption. He quit after I sent him home one evening* after the way he spoke to me.

 

A couple of months later he asked to come back. I let him and it was the biggest mistake I have made in my time as a leader. He hadn't learned a single lesson. Thankfully he quit again a few weeks later and this time didn't come back.

 

*In 18 years as a scouter it is one of only two occasions when I have sent someone home on the spot. On this occasion it was for the way he addressed me in front of the whole troop. The previous occasion was a cub who had knocked another cub to the ground, sat on his chest and was proceeding to punch him repeatedly in the face!

[qwazse]

It's called an application because you are asking permission to participate in scouting according to the principles of the organization (I.e., those words you're supposed to say every night.)

 

It sounds like you have proof that the applicant is not brokering in good faith.

[scoutldr]

"A foul-mouthed bully, with a habit of stealing...Dismissed from NYLT.."  No sign of changing.  No.  Just no.  You don't need any more justification than that.

[Krampus]

Thankfully we have never had a totally disruptive scout. We have had the odd issues over the years but, after counselling, they typically drop or don't recharter. Most change or grow up. Those with severe issues (not due to mental, physical or emotional issues) usually just leave. Those with the issues I mention usually get better. One boy took two years to get over his issues. We were patient, had a plan and he kept to it. Never had safety issues.

[Rock Doc]

Thanks everyone! You're all saying what I believe to be true, but have struggled with simply saying "No". 

[Krampus]

Thanks everyone! You're all saying what I believe to be true, but have struggled with simply saying "No". 

Have you talked to your DE or the other troop? Maybe they have more information for you.

[CalicoPenn]

Question - how do the other adult volunteers feel about his rejoining?  How do your senior-level Scouts feel about it?  This shouldn't be a decision you make on your own.  You have other adult leaders that you can get advice from, and you should make an effort to talk to a select few senior-level Scouts (SPL, "Leadership Corps" (I really wish the BSA would bring that back) for their advice as well (I've seen Troops start to tear apart when a Scoutmaster or Committee Chair allowed a disruptive Scout back in to the unit without discussing it with the boys or other adult leaders (When your SPL hands in his resignation the night the former Scout comes back and tells you he is going to find another unit, and half the boys walk out with him, you'll know you just made a huge error).

 

Talking to the other SM is a good idea - talking to the DE?  I wouldn't bother - his job is numbers - they don't want to see anyone leave Scouting, and they are good at talking people in to taking in problem scouts when those folks are hesitant to say no.  You're all volunteers, if you don't feel you want to deal with this lad, then just tell him no - but remember, you don't have to take that task on yourself - you aren't telling him no, the unit is telling him no - and that's how you put it to the lad and his parent(s) - the Troop made a decision and the answer is no.

[Krampus]

Figured talking to the DE might 1) uncover if any problems had risen to the district level with this scout, 2) put the DE on notice what the unit may be considering if the family of the boy decided to complain.

[Rock Doc]

Question - how do the other adult volunteers feel about his rejoining?  How do your senior-level Scouts feel about it?  This shouldn't be a decision you make on your own.  You have other adult leaders that you can get advice from, and you should make an effort to talk to a select few senior-level Scouts (SPL, "Leadership Corps" (I really wish the BSA would bring that back) for their advice as well (I've seen Troops start to tear apart when a Scoutmaster or Committee Chair allowed a disruptive Scout back in to the unit without discussing it with the boys or other adult leaders (When your SPL hands in his resignation the night the former Scout comes back and tells you he is going to find another unit, and half the boys walk out with him, you'll know you just made a huge error).

 

Talking to the other SM is a good idea - talking to the DE?  I wouldn't bother - his job is numbers - they don't want to see anyone leave Scouting, and they are good at talking people in to taking in problem scouts when those folks are hesitant to say no.  You're all volunteers, if you don't feel you want to deal with this lad, then just tell him no - but remember, you don't have to take that task on yourself - you aren't telling him no, the unit is telling him no - and that's how you put it to the lad and his parent(s) - the Troop made a decision and the answer is no.

The adult Scouters and senior scouts are all in agreement that we would rather not let him rejoin. There's just been no precedent in our unit for such measures.  You're correct about the DE, as his sole purpose it seems is to keep the numbers up and create new units.

[NJCubScouter]

I agree with what Calico says, except that if the decision is made to not allow the Scout to rejoin, I agree with Krampus that the DE should be notified - not necessarily asked or his/her opinion, just notified of the decision. The guidelines on youth behavior (they used to be handed out at YP training, now they are in the G2SS) say that if a Scout is removed from a unit for repeated behavioral problems, the council should be notified. I would say this falls into the same category, if you are declining the Scout's application due to past behavior problems in your troop.

[Stosh]

A lot of that can and should be done in this situation depends on the skills of the leadership, both youth and adult.

 

I have "taken back" disruptive boys and had no problems.   Disruptive scouts who quit are still notified of any and all troop/patrol activities until their registration runs out and they don't recharter.

 

I tend to think outside the box when dealing with such situations and when the boy can't second guess and figure you out, they are at a disadvantage.  Peer pressure along with adult guidance goes a long way to make up for poor parenting at home.  The discipline and boundaries provided by Scouting is usually what these boys need more than getting punished, kicked out or told they can't return.  How does one work that out in light of the Scout Law?  We can't all be dealt 100% well adjusted, politie scouts all the time.  Some of the boys are going to be Tom Slade.