A Coed thought Experiment

[qwazse]

This is an extrapolation on my understand of how my Czech friends say scouting panned out in their district.

 

Suppose the GS/USA never promotes a vision of hiking and camping independently with your mates, COs started insisting on such a program for girls and boys, and a few soft hearted scouters pull it together -- possibly within the BSA but maybe under another umbrella with similar street cred (so much so, that congress gives it a charter after decades of not bothering with such niceties).

 

You had only access to three units in your area:

- an all-male troop with a reputation for "high-speed, low-drag" adult led micro management. They look impressive though ... All those great gateways that only licensed contractors could build. Nice-looking parlor scouts. etc ...

- a troop with female patrols and male patrols, they always do things together with few independent activite smainly because some of the parents don't want to muck about with activity logistics. The advancement program seems fair and rigorous, however. With youth accountable to their PLs for T2FC.

- a troop with fully independent patrols -- seemingly age based -- full-on PM camping 100 yards apart. Each patrol is mixed boys and girls. The venture patrol is saving up for a boat at Seabase. They are mentoring the PLC which this year includes a female SPL and male ASPL.

 

Which troop(s) would you recommend to an 11 year old boy in your charge?

[cyclops]

I would recommend door 2 or door 3 with a preference for door 3. The mixed gender nature of that experience is closer to society than the segregated versions.

[Eagle94-A1]

Don't know. I definitely would steer clear of unit 1. I don't like "High Speed, Low Drag" and  "One and Done" units.

 

 

Troops 2 and 3 sound good. I would let the Scout decide.

[sst3rd]

None of them.

 

sst3rd

[NJCubScouter]

Moderator Note: This is the third currently active thread about the same general subject, but I realize it is presented somewhat differently than the others. If it remains about patrol method, troop organization, program, etc., it will stay here in the "Patrol Method" section. Otherwise it may get moved.

[Stosh]

I'm with @@sst3rd on this one, I'd still be looking for the all-male #2 or #3.  Which in a few cases, we already have.

[NJCubScouter]

This is NOT a moderator note.

 

Maybe this is breaking the "rules" of your thought experiment, but I'll ask this anyway: Quazse, in this version of reality, has our hypothetical 11-year-old already been in a Cub Scout (or "Cub-Scout-like") program that was also coed? And if so, how did that work out?

[qwazse]

...

Maybe this is breaking the "rules" of your thought experiment, but I'll ask this anyway: Quazse, in this version of reality, has our hypothetical 11-year-old already been in a Cub Scout (or "Cub-Scout-like") program that was also coed? And if so, how did that work out?

My versions of reality never have enough detail.   Not sure if I would handle the situation differently in either case. Let's just have you navigate the problem with the last such boy (and his family) who came to you with such a situation. So, maybe your cubs have sisters around a lot, but for me, I had last helped a neighbor's kid who never was in cub scouts. If you think it matters ... let us know who that kid was.

 

@@Stosh and @@sst3rd, Not everyone lives in such a scouting-rich territory. But, I guess telling a boy to forgo scouting because no unit is good enough for him is a valid strategy if you sincerely think it will give him the best personal growth.

 

My pics, I think, are 1 or 2.  I'd encourage the boy to consider those two. Although it's not my favorite I've seen kids do okay in adult-lead troops. And, I'm thinking a boy is more likely find himself among friends if his patrol is all guys.

[Stosh]

@@qwazse giving a non-coed option and two coed options is a bit of apples and oranges.  Was this little poll a test of a certain hypothesis or just a random what say ye?  Were we being polled on coed, adult-led, or some other consideration?  If one is interested in all-male BSA, then there is only one answer, #1.   If one wants coed then there's only 2 options, both pretty much the same.  So your questionaire is not a question of program and program delivery, it's just an issue of all-male vs. coed.

[qwazse]

@@Stosh, I sincerely wish that there were enough caring and capable adults in the world -- and childhood was extended enough -- to offer any panoply of configurations a kid could wish for. We all know that in small-town America ... even in certain distressed urban areas ... that's just not the case. Somebody somewhere always winds up in a situation that doesn't suit their palate.

 

In spite of its omission from the title ... this is about the patrol method, how much folks feel that exclusively "male" (or at least unisex) participants are to its implementation, and what other trade-offs one might be willing to make.

 

Obviously, none of us know what novel thing we'll put up with or rail against until someone we care about wants to try it. Thus "thought experiment". If anyone  finds it untenable, no one's stopping them from fabricating their own simulated district.

[CalicoPenn]

I would choose a combination of #2 and #3 - in other words, an option 4 - A Troop with same gender patrols (which could have a female SPL male ASPL (or vice versa)) and a Venturing unit for those older Scouts that would prefer to be part of a truly co-ed crew - with close cooperation between the two units.

[Stosh]

There's always the YMCA and Boy and Girls Clubs, too if one can't find a troop that meets their needs.  There's always more choices out there than hypothetical situations account for.  If a young boy came to me and said he wanted a BOY scouting program and BSA was coed, I would have no problem recommending the TrailLifeUSA option that is locally available.  One simply works at being helpful in getting the boys what he wants.  We swim in an ocean, not a fishbowl.

[NJCubScouter]

I guess it goes to show, you can't give people in this forum a limited number of options and expect that to stick. We'll always make up a few of our own.

[Stosh]

Just about every multiple choice test I've taken over the years always as D) None of the above.     It's always a freebie question because most of the time A), B), and C) are obviously stupid.

[perdidochas]

This is an extrapolation on my understand of how my Czech friends say scouting panned out in their district.

 

Suppose the GS/USA never promotes a vision of hiking and camping independently with your mates, COs started insisting on such a program for girls and boys, and a few soft hearted scouters pull it together -- possibly within the BSA but maybe under another umbrella with similar street cred (so much so, that congress gives it a charter after decades of not bothering with such niceties).

 

You had only access to three units in your area:

- an all-male troop with a reputation for "high-speed, low-drag" adult led micro management. They look impressive though ... All those great gateways that only licensed contractors could build. Nice-looking parlor scouts. etc ...

- a troop with female patrols and male patrols, they always do things together with few independent activite smainly because some of the parents don't want to muck about with activity logistics. The advancement program seems fair and rigorous, however. With youth accountable to their PLs for T2FC.

- a troop with fully independent patrols -- seemingly age based -- full-on PM camping 100 yards apart. Each patrol is mixed boys and girls. The venture patrol is saving up for a boat at Seabase. They are mentoring the PLC which this year includes a female SPL and male ASPL.

 

Which troop(s) would you recommend to an 11 year old boy in your charge?

The middle one.  I think a patrol with mixed boys and girls at that age would be rough on the boys. 11 year old boys are much less capable in terms of interpersonal skills than 11 year old girls.  A mixed gender/similar age patrol would not work well, IMHO.

Edited December 8, 2015 by perdidochas