maryread Posted March 16, 2016 Share Posted March 16, 2016 (edited) Why not be honest about it and then not call it BOY Scouts of America. For me, the use of the Boy Scouts of America branding is what the co-ed group wants. @[member="maryread" alluded to this when the idea of another group wouldn't have the prestige of BSA and the 100+ year reputation it has garnered. For me, personally, I would find it a lot easier to hijack someone else's reputation than try it on my own. If it works, fine, if it doesn't, one at least gets some free press out of it. Like I said, starting a co-ed outdoor youth ministry is a lot easier for the kids in my area than trying to take on the whole of the BSA to get a Pack charter with the BSA logo on it. I can provide exactly the same program for them as I now do for my cub aged counterparts.. Why was it that you returned to BSA after having a poor experience with it? http://blog.scoutingmagazine.org/2016/03/03/photos-scouts-meet-president-obama-to-deliver-report-to-the-nation/ ​ Edited March 16, 2016 by maryread Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stosh Posted March 16, 2016 Share Posted March 16, 2016 A son in first grade... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maryread Posted March 16, 2016 Share Posted March 16, 2016 (edited) A son in first grade... legacy. Scouting is built into our constitution, with our President as it's leader. It's important. It's not what I want, it's what the youth want. Heck, our state accepts 2 lifeguarding certifications. Red Cross, and BSA. I'm a reasonable person, and I'm going to help out the best I can with my BPSA group. I just still don't see a problem with the girls in our pack officially participating and being recognized for their achievements. They're already there, they're already doing everything with the boys if they want to. And it seems that most packs in our district operate the same way. I feel it's worth at least testing it out. Edited March 16, 2016 by maryread Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwazse Posted March 16, 2016 Share Posted March 16, 2016 Why not be honest about it and then not call it BOY Scouts of America. For me, the use of the Boy Scouts of America branding is what the co-ed group wants. @[member="maryread" alluded to this when the idea of another group wouldn't have the prestige of BSA and the 100+ year reputation it has garnered. For me, personally, I would find it a lot easier to hijack someone else's reputation than try it on my own. If it works, fine, if it doesn't, one at least gets some free press out of it. Like I said, starting a co-ed outdoor youth ministry is a lot easier for the kids in my area than trying to take on the whole of the BSA to get a Pack charter with the BSA logo on it. I can provide exactly the same program for them as I now do for my cub aged counterparts.. In the 80's they did try to re-brand it Scouting USA. I still use some of the old stickers as geocache swag. Flopped along with the "improved" program. I don't doubt that the level of (often naive) esteem of the BSA drives some. They can't/wont think of a better program, yet they want that for their kids. But, most girls I've met who want this program are hooked the minute they see a bowline on one end and taught-line on the other end of a guy-line. The initials on the buttons (or report to the nation, etc ...) don't improve on that impression. Even if they dispense with the futility of national recognition, if these independent female/co-ed patrols are more than a one-off thing, they will arrive at a critical mass where our boys will think us stupid for not counting them among our number. We have had young men pretty much say as much on these forums regarding O/A and female venturers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maryread Posted March 16, 2016 Share Posted March 16, 2016 (edited) Even if they dispense with the futility of national recognition, if these independent female/co-ed patrols are more than a one-off thing, they will arrive at a critical mass where our boys will think us stupid for not counting them among our number. We have had young men pretty much say as much on these forums regarding O/A and female venturers. Yet there are people in the BSA community encouraging we start these programs. Currently my BPSA group has more boys than girls in it. We're fairly new, and not very large. The boys in the group are not Cub Scouting as well (not that I haven't encouraged it). The other BPSA in my area is quite large, and also has a good amount of boys in the group. There's a big difference between my BPSA group, and our Cub Scout pack though. Cub Scouts is always a much larger event when we get together as a pack, there are lots of kids running around, the energy is different. BPSA is focusing on more of the scouting activities and ethics BP had envisioned. Edited March 16, 2016 by maryread Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peregrinator Posted March 16, 2016 Share Posted March 16, 2016 To be fair, I've read Scouting for Boys and The Wolf Cub's Handbook​ by BP and the current Cub Scout program is a far cry from his original program. That wasn't brought on by girls, it was brought on by BSA evolving to match the interests of today's kids.Actually the BSA has never, except perhaps early on and unofficially, run B-P's Wolf Cub program. For example, BSA Cub Scouts have always been segregated by age (initially - Wolf, Bear, Lion - hence WeBeLoS). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tatung42 Posted April 8, 2016 Share Posted April 8, 2016 (edited) I would love to see BSA open to girls at all levels. I never realized until I attended the world jamboree, that the USA is like the only country where the scouting programs are separate. I was in an explorer post as youth and young adult, and one of the issues that we faced was that the girls were all inexperienced with outdoor skills compared to the boys who had learned at lot from their troops. It generate a divide between the two gender groups, which made working as a team just that much more difficult. I'm just getting back involved with venturing now, and it appears that the same still holds true. Edited April 8, 2016 by Tatung42 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwazse Posted April 8, 2016 Share Posted April 8, 2016 It will be interesting to see how the 2019 world jamboree will shape opinions on co-Ed units. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peregrinator Posted April 8, 2016 Share Posted April 8, 2016 I never realized until I attended the world jamboree, that the USA is like the only country where the scouting programs are separate.That's not the case. Indonesia has the largest scouting and guiding association in the world and its boys' and girls' programs are separate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cambridgeskip Posted April 8, 2016 Share Posted April 8, 2016 That's not the case. Indonesia has the largest scouting and guiding association in the world and its boys' and girls' programs are separate. Yes and no. While boys and girls meet separately they are still part of the same WOSM affiliated national organisation, have the same program, uniform etc and have regular joint events. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cambridgeskip Posted April 8, 2016 Share Posted April 8, 2016 It will be interesting to see how the 2019 world jamboree will shape opinions on co-Ed units. It cuts both ways though. A story for you.... So I run scouts, 10-14 year olds. But I have 3 x explorer scouts (14-17) who are attached the troop as young leaders. 2 of these went to the world jamboree in Japan last year. One of them is quite passionate about equality and before going to Japan I'm sorry to say her opinion of BSA was not a high one. She was well versed on the previous ban on gay members and is well aware of the continuing local option for leaders (don't shoot the messenger here). Over all, she was not impressed. She came back from Japan with multiple American friends and bought me a BSA contingent t-shirt as a souvenir. She'd learned that you folks are human beings as well! (I'd tried to explain this before hand but teenagers will be teenagers) So like I say, it cuts all ways. Everyone has something to learn from everyone else. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sentinel947 Posted April 8, 2016 Share Posted April 8, 2016 It cuts both ways though. A story for you.... So I run scouts, 10-14 year olds. But I have 3 x explorer scouts (14-17) who are attached the troop as young leaders. 2 of these went to the world jamboree in Japan last year. One of them is quite passionate about equality and before going to Japan I'm sorry to say her opinion of BSA was not a high one. She was well versed on the previous ban on gay members and is well aware of the continuing local option for leaders (don't shoot the messenger here). Over all, she was not impressed. She came back from Japan with multiple American friends and bought me a BSA contingent t-shirt as a souvenir. She'd learned that you folks are human beings as well! (I'd tried to explain this before hand but teenagers will be teenagers) So like I say, it cuts all ways. Everyone has something to learn from everyone else. If only our politicians could learn the same lesson! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpstodwftexas Posted April 9, 2016 Share Posted April 9, 2016 Scouting is built into our constitution, with our President as it's leader. It's important. It's not what I want, it's what the youth want. I missed that in the Constitution...can you point me in the right direction to finding it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpstodwftexas Posted April 9, 2016 Share Posted April 9, 2016 Actually the BSA has never, except perhaps early on and unofficially, run B-P's Wolf Cub program. For example, BSA Cub Scouts have always been segregated by age (initially - Wolf, Bear, Lion - hence WeBeLoS). WeBelos....Stands for WE BE LOYAL SCOUTS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peregrinator Posted April 9, 2016 Share Posted April 9, 2016 WeBelos....Stands for WE BE LOYAL SCOUTS That's what it stands for now since the progression was changed. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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