Girls Just Wanna Be Cub Scouts

[SeattlePioneer]

<< http://abcnews.go.com/US/girls-fight-join-local-cub-scouts-troop/story?id=35159121 >>

 

 

 

Just as predicted, once the homosexual angle went away,  liberals have found yet another reason to hate BSA.  

[Eagle94-A1]

So when will the Girl Scouts accept cisgendered males into their organization?

 

Seriously though, if the parents wanted the same activities for thei daughters', then why not voltunteer to be a leader and take them camping?

[desertrat77]

Seriously though, if the parents wanted the same activities for thei daughters', then why not voltunteer to be a leader and take them camping?

Eagle, I wondered the same thing.   After serving a year as a Brownie co-leader for daughter's unit (about ten years ago), I found out (at least where I was at) the organization as a whole isn't very big on camping or anything resembling the BSA outdoor model.     Nor having the girls run and play games or compete.  True, a GS leader could forge her own way and emphasize the outdoors more.   But it will be a pretty lonely venture.   The GSA just isn't that kind of organization.

[NJCubScouter]

I'm the one who moved this to Issues and Politics. (Where, statistics show, it will be seen by MORE readers than if it stayed in the Cub Scouts forum, not less. Or should that be, not fewer?)

 

If anybody has a problem with that, please note that there has been a thread about this exact same subject - actually about the same group of five girls - in Open Discussion/Program, since yesterday, and it has stayed where it was, because people have just been discussing the idea of girls in Cub/Boy Scouts, without talking about "liberals" or "hating" the BSA. (And I'll get to that in a separate post.)

[qwazse]

Also here http://www.nytimes.com/2015/11/23/us/girls-in-california-are-latest-to-seek-to-become-boy-scouts.html

[NJCubScouter]

<< http://abcnews.go.com/US/girls-fight-join-local-cub-scouts-troop/story?id=35159121 >>

 

Just as predicted, once the homosexual angle went away,  liberals have found yet another reason to hate BSA.

I watched the video, and I read the article, and I read the other article that TwoCub posted in the thread in Open Discussion (and qwazse just posted here), and these girls don't necessarily seem "liberal" to me. Or "conservative". Or moderate, or anything else ideological. They're just girls. And I definitely don't see anybody "hating" the BSA. Just the opposite. These girls LOVE the BSA. They want to be IN the BSA. They want to camp, hike, compete at Camporees, wear Boy Scout (or Cub Scout) uniforms. The oldest one is already getting ready to be SPL, or at least den chief for her younger sister and her friends. I see no ideological campaign here. I see a group of kids who want to get in on the fun.

 

Which doesn't necessarily mean they should be allowed in. I have said before that I have no problem with one Scouting organization for each gender. What I think needs to happen is that Girl Scouts (and their leaders) who want to do more outdoor activities, start doing them. If there is resistance within the GSUSA hiercharchy, have a little rebellion and change things. If there are that many Girl Scout who feel that way, and their parents/leaders back them up, they shouldn't have any problem.

 

But I don't see any reason to view all this as a negative. People want to be Boy Scouts! Their interest just needs to be channeled in a direction that allows each of the two major Scouting organizations to focus on its own constituency.

Edited November 26, 2015 by NJCubScouter

[FScouter]

Nothing here that is political.  Why don't you put it in the Girl Scout forum?

[cyclops]

Nothing political?  C'mon, look at that original post and explain how there isn't anything political about it. Seems pretty obvious to me. If you can read what Seattlepioneer wrote voicing his opinion about liberals finding another way to hate  BSA as non-political, you're going to have a steep hill to climb trying to explain that to me.

Flatly stating there is nothing political in the OP doesn't thereby make it so. It's incumbent on you to explain why. You didn't.

Edited November 26, 2015 by cyclops

[Eagle94-A1]

<< http://abcnews.go.com/US/girls-fight-join-local-cub-scouts-troop/story?id=35159121 >>

 

 

 

Just as predicted, once the homosexual angle went away,  liberals have found yet another reason to hate BSA.  

 

Nothing political?  C'mon, look at that original post and explain how there isn't anything political about it. Seems pretty obvious to me. If you can read what Seattlepioneer wrote voicing his opinion about liberals finding another way to hate  BSA as non-political, you're going to have a steep hill to climb trying to explain that to me.

Flatly stating there is nothing political in the OP doesn't thereby make it so. It's incumbent on you to explain why. You didn't.

 

 

While the two links may not be political, have you read the comments at them?  Also there are other websites picking up  the news and are making a big political statement out of it. a lot of folks do not like the BSA, and think the membership standards should change again to include girls, without making a similar demand of GSUSA.

 

I'll be honest, I have mixed emotions on this. One one hand, I've seen sisters do the meetings and activities with their brothers as Cub Scouts is Family oriented. They just couldn't earn the awards. And I have been a Sea Explorer, and an Explorer and Venturing leader, so I know co-ed can work. Plus I saw it in action overseas.

 

But I know from personal experience how stupid teenage and 20 something males can be when girls are around.  I saw it with some of the youth leaders at summer camp. I saw it with my friends. And hey,  I admit, I traded my belt with Skill Awards on it for British neckerchief because the female Scout was extremely cute Plus I saw it with a fellow service crew member, who was so stupid in regards to one female leader, that her troop got involved.  yep they invited him to dinner one nite, tied him to the chair, put clown make up to emphasize he was acting like one, and shaved his legs in verticle and horizontal stripes just before the big rugby match. So I kinda like having an all male environment for my boys.

 

As someone posted in another thread, I see this happening in the next few years. IMHO, I believe the Girl Scouts will be taking a very serious hit and will complain and protest. Just like they did in the 70s from the anecdotes I heard when BSA was thinking about becoming Scouting USA, and whenthe BSA wanted to come out with BSA Energy Bars. Yep the Girl Scouts threatened to sue the BSA if they came out with energy bars because it was too close to their cookies.

Edited November 26, 2015 by Eagle94-A1

[cyclops]

Eagle94-A1, I agree. I'm not sure the time frame is something I'd like to predict but I see the trend as well and I have no problems with it. From the other thread I also tend to agree that if membership was left to the CO with respect to gender as well, the 'hit' to GSA might still happen but GSA would have a tough time forcing BSA to enforce a 'no girls' policy, seeing as how GSA hasn't opposed the inclusion of girls in most every program except Cubs and Boy Scouts, especially if BSA's approach was merely 'hands off' local decisions for membership.

In the marketplace of youth programs GSA has to compete and if their programs are not competitive, then the market should work the way markets work. It would be a powerful incentive to them to 'open' their programs as well.

If BSA did allow that level of local control, GSA might view the move as a sort of 'hostile takeover' but in fact it would merely be an adaptation by BSA which would allow a more-free market/democratic approach in which individual boys and girls could choose more freely what kind of youth program they'd like to join.

As for teen silliness, true enough. But to me that sort of thing seems inevitable whether they're mixed or not. We just have to keep them alive long enough for their brains to develop into something more rational (yeah, I know: wishful thinking for some of them).

 

P.S. the cookie/energy bar thing is merely a distraction. I'd like to see the jury's reaction to the argument that they can't tell the difference between a cookie and an energy bar.

 

Whoa! I just noticed that I'm now a 'senior member'. How the heck did that happen? I guess I'm going to have to gum those energy bars now.

Edited November 26, 2015 by cyclops

[qwazse]

The "issue" here, is that some activist women no longer find "home" in an organization that has adopted feminist ideals. (I am referencing feminism here with the utmost respect.)

 

The post-modern popular "ideal" of womanhood for young women with a passion for scouting is much different than the revolutionaries of the last century would have ever predicted. It's more Sacajawea than Sanger.

[ghjim]

This is most definitely a political subject. Which means I doubt any of us on either side of the aisle can agree on this one. I would love to see girls included in the BSA.  I have posted before that you can have separate girls troops and boys troops who can meet and compete at Camporees, etc.  This way  you can provide adult leadership suited for adolescent girls or for adolescent boys.  There is nothing in the BSA program that could not benefit growing girls.

 

On the somewhat mean-spirited side I am of the belief that the far right wing has had too much influence over the BSA since my days as a scout and scouter.  This move would drive the nastiest of those out and increase the more liberal membership.

 

Jim

[desertrat77]

So BSA National backed down from energy bars because of a potential lawsuit by the GSA?

 

That's weak.   For both organizations.   Proof that the GSA will go to any extreme to preserve their turf.   And proof that BSA National didn't have the courage to press forward with energy bars anyway.   Did they really think the GSA would have pursued such a suit?   It would make the GSA look small if they did.

 

It also finally explains to me, after many years, why the BSA hitched its wagon to a lousy, uninspiring product like popcorn.

Edited November 27, 2015 by desertrat77

[qwazse]

.... On the somewhat mean-spirited side I am of the belief that the far right wing has had too much influence over the BSA since my days as a scout and scouter.  This move would drive the nastiest of those out and increase the more liberal membership. ...

I believe you believe that.

 

However there is no logic in unisex movements per se attracting a more liberal movement. For example, the pro-life movement, NRA, and many other social "conservative" lobbies have benefited from attracting as many women as men. It is entirely possible that, seeing a program that attracts and supports young men and women in practicing duty to God and Country, conservative CO's would be drawn back to the BSA.

[ghjim]

I believe you believe that.

 

However there is no logic in unisex movements per se attracting a more liberal movement. For example, the pro-life movement, NRA, and many other social "conservative" lobbies have benefited from attracting as many women as men. It is entirely possible that, seeing a program that attracts and supports young men and women in practicing duty to God and Country, conservative CO's would be drawn back to the BSA.

 

Maybe.  We would have to see.  I was a teenage Explorer when the  program opened up to teenage girls.  I have a vivid memory of the types of girls that immediately signed up. They weren't the demure type. I am betting that the girls and their parents that get involved in the gritty BSA activities are not going to be interested in any kind of highly conservative CO dictating values.