John-in-KC Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 (edited) I'll just leave this little doozy from the National Council for all y'all to read here... When Do You Become An Eagle Scout? Edited November 24, 2015 by John-in-KC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krampus Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 I'll just leave this little doozy from the National Council for all y'all to read here... When Do You Become An Eagle Scout? Sounds like that council confused the official date of making Eagle with the official date you become Eagle. Isn't your date of award your EBOR date, but you are not officially conferred the title until you pass national. So, you can have your EBOR on 1/11/16 but you cannot wear your Eagle nor have your ECOH until after national confirms your rank...which could be serveral weeks later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vumbi Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 (edited) That article shows a truly labyrinthine process. Is all that really necessary? Seems like an awful lot of attention at the national level by people who don't know the boy, the family, the community, and weren't present for any of the advancement work or the EBOR for that matter. Does it really make sense for national to be so involved? What do they really add to the process that hasn't already been done by the council or local level? Again, is all that really necessary? P.S. what would be wrong with the date of 'making' Eagle being the same as 'becoming Eagle'? Does this really have to be so confusing? Edited November 24, 2015 by vumbi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eagle94-A1 Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 That article shows a truly labyrinthine process. Is all that really necessary? Seems like an awful lot of attention at the national level by people who don't know the boy, the family, the community, and weren't present for any of the advancement work or the EBOR for that matter. Does it really make sense for national to be so involved? What do they really add to the process that hasn't already been done by the council or local level? Again, is all that really necessary? I agree with you, decisions should be on the local level. However, I;m betting national is getting involved because of some of the things done at the local level. I've personally seen 1 district advancement chairman (DAC) try to refuse a Scout his Eagle because he didn't personally approve the service project. Project was approved by the DAC at the time and completed prior to the BOR DAC even became a leader. Only a threat of an appeal was able to get me Eagle. On the opposite extreme, I saw one man who was not granted his Eagle by the EBOR, and did appeal it to national. National granted the appeal saying they would not penalize the Scout for something his leaders did. And that resulted in the entire district advancement committee resigning in protest. Hate to say it, but after meeting the young man, I could see why the EBOR denied it, and why the committee resigned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krampus Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 That article shows a truly labyrinthine process. Is all that really necessary? Seems like an awful lot of attention at the national level by people who don't know the boy, the family, the community, and weren't present for any of the advancement work or the EBOR for that matter. Does it really make sense for national to be so involved? What do they really add to the process that hasn't already been done by the council or local level? Again, is all that really necessary? P.S. what would be wrong with the date of 'making' Eagle being the same as 'becoming Eagle'? Does this really have to be so confusing? It is a control thing. In reality the dates are the same. You make Eagle on the date of your EBOR. You become Eagle once the paperwork has cleared national, but it is retroactive to your EBOR. So, in essence, you are an Eagle-Elect after your EBOR until validated....much like you are not President until the Electoral College casts their vote. The difference obviously is that President is not retroactive to the election. Looking at how Balkanized the councils are with how policy is implemented, national has stepped in to better control the process. It is not all that confusing when you think about it. Eagle Scout: So am I an Eagle now? Advancement Chair: No. Your paperwork needs to be confirmed by national. Once that is done you WILL be an Eagle and the effective date of your Eagle rank is today, at your EBOR. Eagle Scout: Can I get my badge and wear it? Advancement Chair: After national confirms your rank. Then you can take the paperwork they will send and go to any scout shop and get your Eagle badge. Or you can wait until your ECOH...your choice. It may sound confusing, but it is really very simple. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
desertrat77 Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 (edited) That article shows a truly labyrinthine process. Is all that really necessary? Vumbi, great points all. Unfortunately, I think some National oversight may be necessary. (I can't believe I typed that last sentence!). As you know, some councils are more efficient than others. Some have their records squared away, and others not. The national scrub ensures that all of the dates, requirements, and other stuff is in order. Then the elephant in the room. Some councils are more honest than others. Or to rephrase, some councils have been known to cook books on membership and other matters, and if they had sole oversight on the Eagle process, who knows what would happen. That said, I begrudgingly view the administrative review and official stamp of approval from National as necessary formalities. Ah, but the truly memorable moment, the one that counts? After the scout has met the EBOR, been dismissed, paced the hallway for awhile, and is escorted back into the board room. When the board chair says "congratulations" THAT is when the scout is an Eagle. He realizes he made it. Relief, happiness, pride...etc. I may be wrong, but the court of honor may pale by comparison. For some. After he knows he passed, the rest of it just waiting for National to do its thing, and the logistics of the court of honor (the latter often turning into a giant pain the neck, depending on the level of hoopla generated by parents/troop/both). Edited November 25, 2015 by desertrat77 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twocubdad Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 So what data is national looking at besides the Eagle application and the Scoutnet records? Do they conduct some sort of independent investigation? Do they conduct interview with folks the locals don't have access to? Right. The appeal process is a different thing. Routinely approving applications shouldn't be a big deal. Our council registrar verifies advancement data on the app against the Scoutnet records BEFORE the board of review. The BOR verifies everything else. National adds nothing to the process. It's just the dog wizzing on a bush. The dog doesn't have to pee, he just wants everyone to know he's been there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
desertrat77 Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 So what data is national looking at besides the Eagle application and the Scoutnet records? Do they conduct some sort of independent investigation? Do they conduct interview with folks the locals don't have access to? Right. The appeal process is a different thing. Routinely approving applications shouldn't be a big deal. Our council registrar verifies advancement data on the app against the Scoutnet records BEFORE the board of review. The BOR verifies everything else. National adds nothing to the process. It's just the dog wizzing on a bush. The dog doesn't have to pee, he just wants everyone to know he's been there. Upon reflection, I cannot disagree..... 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sentinel947 Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 Upon reflection, I cannot disagree..... My fat thumb down voted you. Meant to up vote 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scoutldr Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 I have sat on EBOR as the District rep. At the conclusion of each one, the Committee Chair, almost without exception, calls the young man back in the room and says "Congratulations, you are now an Eagle Scout." In one case, he was going to Philmont within a week or two, and wanted to wear the Eagle patch on his uniform. I see nothing wrong with that. It's not like he will be hauled up before the "Stolen valor" inquisition. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
desertrat77 Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 My fat thumb down voted you. Meant to up vote Quite alright Sentinel, it makes up for a red that I deserved but didn't get somewhere back in time! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwazse Posted November 26, 2015 Share Posted November 26, 2015 My fat thumb down voted you. Meant to up vote Quite alright Sentinel, it makes up for a red that I deserved but didn't get somewhere back in time!I up-thumbed so DR's reputation will remain unsullied. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwazse Posted November 26, 2015 Share Posted November 26, 2015 I knew that I was an Eagle when my project was complete to my satisfaction ... Including a three page workbook of one hand drawing and two typewritten sheets, single-sided triple spaced. Everything that followed was perfunctory. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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