The Training of Boys to be Men

[Proud Eagle]

While BP may never have had anything carved into stone saying that Scouting was trying to make boys into men, I think he probably would have suggested that is certainly something Scouting supports. If you look at the qualities of manliness that Wheeler mentions you will notice most equate, at least roughly, with various values that Scouting, particularly BSA, support. I think the part where there would be some disagreement is that BP would never have been so bold as to suggest that Scouting could create men all of its own initiative. BP was also wise to avoid using any generic, easily misunderstood label of "men" as being the goal, and instead chose to highlight certain areas he felt that society was doing a poor job on. That kept Scouting focused on the areas society needed help, and it prevented someone from later deciding that it meant something else to be a man.

 

That is just my current opinion on the matter.

[firstpusk]

I started as a Scoutmaster of my oldest boy's troop soon after he joined. He is now grown graduated and on his own. I and my colleagues here take the job of Scoutmaster as a serious and important task. We train boy leaders and the boys we train take up the reins when we are too feeble to continue.

 

A number of my former scouts are serving in the military. They are fine young men that I am tremendously proud of and I pray for their safety.

 

Is the BSA perfect? No. Are there things that I would like to change? Yes, and I try to work within the organization to change it. I have seen this program give boys opportunities to grow that have changed them in truly wonderous ways. If we have them for a couple of years they have an understanding of virtue, hard work, teamwork and leadership that will serve them well.

 

This organization is and was at its founding democratic in a radical way. The boys lead and from that they learn.

 

I have been training Scoutmasters for almost as long as I have been a Scoutmaster. I can work with man or woman young adult or duffer. It makes no difference as long as they are willing to learn and work with the program as it is laid out. I have seen folks come in to the troop or the district thinking they know-it-all. WHEELER feel free to express your opinions. Feel free to start your own organization. Recognize one thing, I wouldn't have you as a member of an adult staff I was picking. You are just too darn smart to lower yourself to participate the BSA program. And for that I will offer a prayer of thankgiving for the blessing you have bestowed on the leaders of tomorrow.

 

 

[WHEELER]

(This is a cross reference.)

The word virtue appears in the Federal Charter of the Boy Scouts of America.

 

23. Purpose of corporation

The purpose of the corporation shall be to promote, through otganization, and cooperation with other agencies, the ability of boys to do things for themselves and others, to train them in Scoutcraft, and to teach them patriotism, courage, self-reliance and kindred virtues, using the methods which were in common use by the Boy Scouts on June 15, 1916.

 

This appeared in the post below:

http://www.scouter.com/forums/viewThread.asp?threadID=54494&p=1

 

[WHEELER]

Perseverance is a moral virtue. But it is also necessary for all virtues since all virtues are habits of character. Perseverance is the golden mean between inconstancy at the low extreme and stubborn and hard pertinacity at the top extreme. To endure is perseverance.

 

Virtue, by its very nature, demands a certain immobility and stability; all good habits demand a certain permanence. Without the virtue of perseverance no virtue would be practiced for a prolonged period of time, and thus it would be impossible to attain the perfection of virtue Catholic Encyclopaedia, Vol 11 pg153-154.

 

Virtue is NOT a value. One does not decide one day not to be courageous or bold because I don't want to. A man is not a man without virtue. Virtue's are habits that are constantly used. Values are things that change day to day according to opinion.

 

[OldGreyEagle]

"We shall endeavor to persevere"

 

Just what does that mean, anyhow?

[WHEELER]

The struggle to stay on course.

 

Much like captains and men of ships in a storm; they struggle to keep the bow pointed into the waves for if it turns left or right, the next wave will swamp them and they shall all perish.

 

The movie "Master and Commander" is a good movie for all boys to see. The saying is "Of wooden ships and iron men". Now we live in an age of "Iron ships and wooden men". "Master and Commander" is about how "real" men live.

[WHEELER]

After defining the virtues in the Republic, Plato remarks that it is evident that virtue is the health, beauty, and well being of the soul, while vice is the disease, ugliness, and weakness of the soul. (1) And he goes on to add that, this being the case, it is ridiculous to ask which life is preferable, the virtuous or the wicked, the just or the unjust.

 

This is taken from Platos View of Man by Constantine Cavarnos, Institute for Byzantine and Modern Greek Studies, Belmont, MA. 1975, pg 41-42.

 

The word just and unjust is from the Greek word dikaiosyne.  It should really read, to distinguish it from the way Socialists use it, righteous and unrighteous.  Dikaiosyne is in its primary sense means righteousness and justice is secondary meaning.

 

The qualities which usually came under the nave of aretai, excellences or virtues, in the Greek poliscourage, prudence, justice, pietyare excellences of the soul just as health, strength, and beauty are excellences of the bodyThe cosmic nature of physical and spiritual virtue is simply the symmetry of the parts on whose co-operation both soul and body depend.

 

This is taken from Paideia, The Ideals of Greek Culture, Werner Jaeger, Vol II, pg 44.

 

Both Constantine Cavarnos (1975) and Werner Jaeger (1943)point out the importance of virtue and both back up Socrates/Plato and calling them the excellences of the soul.  As physical fitness is to the body, Virtues are to the soul.  Man is both body and soul.  Both have to be perfected.

 

Why has the word "Virtue" been abandoned by the Boy Scout Movement?  Why has "values" supplanted it ?

 

 

(1) This is footnoted by the author, Republic, 444d-e