Getting Your Unit Adult Leaders DROPPED BY Council!

[Krampus]

BSA is their own worst enemy in that the process is cumbersome, redundant and time-consuming.

[blw2]

@@Eagle94-A1, I am curious, what is burning out the DEs? What's the role description and job requirements that's taking its toll on these guys?

in another thread, @scoutpro66 (maybe I have their tag name wrong) posted a detailed description just yesterday of the job, season by season.

Basically, they are run ragged

vacation is frowned upon

they are expected to do stuff that they know does not much good or that they know is not wanted or needed (such as FOS & spring recruiting for Cubs)

no time for family, lots of divorce

[blw2]

here's the post I mentioned

http://scouter.com/index.php/topic/27719-colonial-va-council-troubles/?p=427703

[Krampus]

in another thread, @scoutpro66 (maybe I have their tag name wrong) posted a detailed description just yesterday of the job, season by season.

Basically, they are run ragged

vacation is frowned upon

they are expected to do stuff that they know does not much good or that they know is not wanted or needed (such as FOS & spring recruiting for Cubs)

no time for family, lots of divorce

 

Thanks for the reply. I suspected as much. I can be honest in that, from a unit perspective, I don't see how the DE impacts me:

• FOS: Units see this as a burden and not really something that impacts us. I understand what the money is used for but it really does not impact us. It is seen as BSA asking for "yet another check". If the rate of return is so low then perpetuating this fund raising model is silly. Time and money could be better spent on a better way to raise money.
• Spring Recruitment: Affects Cubs but not Boy Scouts...at least in my area. In all my years of Cubs I never had the DE involved in any of our recruiting. Our success or failure was all our own. Same goes for other packs in our district. The DE has never been around nor provided them with any (useful) materials, strategies or insights. This usually comes from volunteers or word of mouth between units. The DE is MIA on this.
• Summer: Never seen the DE. HE's usually hob-nobbing with the guys in Irving.
• Fall Recruitment: See spring recruitment.
• December/Recharter: This is the only time I get anything from my DE. It is usually a poorly worded email sent out to all units reminding us to get our recharter and JTE paperwork in. He does not bother to look to see that we've turned our paperwork in early, nor does he acknowledge that our unit (every year) has turned in our completed paperwork early. We *do* end up with the bulk chastisement that goes out to units who submitted late. Go figure.

I can sympathize with working in non-profits. I did that for ten years before my current career path. I know it is thankless work where you get burned out fast. However, I struggle to see how the DE serves my unit or my members. It seems he's all about 1) raising money for council, 2) managing paperwork, 3) trying to implement membership strategies that are of no use to the units in the field.

 

Is that it? Is that all they do?

[blw2]

and I'll bet most DE's struggle seeing that too.  

When I think about it, it must be tough doing a job that you yourself clearly see as devalued, while getting all sorts of negative pressure from your boss.

 

From my perspective, about the only direct and clear benefit from some of our DE's have been an occasional hand off of paperwork..... such as meeting the DE at say a University of Scouting to hand off the recharter papers, and thereby saving me a drive into the office....  I believed of course there's more.... it's just hard to see.

[Stosh]

Working for non-profits are hard to do.  As I mentioned the impetus of the endeavor is the mission, not the profit.  Somehow that gets translated into some sort of accomplishing this without concern for the $$.  Well, a guy's gotta eat, people!  

 

I took a class 35 years ago from a church administrator that indicated that 100 years prior to that the average minister, left seminary, served a parish for 45 years, retired and burned out and went fishing.... At that point the expectation level of the pastor had less than 100 major categories to fulfill.  Fast forward to 35 years ago, the new formula had changed and the average pastor would burn out 2-3 times before retiring.  The rate of pastoral loss continues to decline.  Why?  The number of expectations had increased well over 500%.  Well, I lasted about 15 years and said, enough's enough.  Went to work for the for-profit sector, never looked back.

 

Most of the DE's in our council do not move up to bigger/better jobs in Scouting, they leave the program at a rate of about 4 to 1.  The reason why?  Just listen to the comments on the forum.  The increase in expectations of these people continues to grow at a rather alarming rate.  As the old adage says, "These are very responsible people working for the council.  If something goes wrong, they're responsible."  Unfortunately in today's world that's no longer a joke.

[John-in-KC]

Sales on Salary, and low salary at that.

 

BSA is a training ground for other non-profits, from what I see.  Other NPs harvest talent from BSA with better salary, fewer hours, and more fun away from the office grind.

[Krampus]

and I'll bet most DE's struggle seeing that too.  

When I think about it, it must be tough doing a job that you yourself clearly see as devalued, while getting all sorts of negative pressure from your boss.

 

From my perspective, about the only direct and clear benefit from some of our DE's have been an occasional hand off of paperwork..... such as meeting the DE at say a University of Scouting to hand off the recharter papers, and thereby saving me a drive into the office....  I believed of course there's more.... it's just hard to see.

 

Good point! It is a bit like being a corpsman...you know you are going to be in the hot zone, being fired at and with little suppressing cover. Takes a special kind of person to do that day in and day out and love it.

 

From your explanation, it sounds like there is a huge disconnect as to what units expect from a DE, what we need from a DE and what a DE is truly asked to do from council....which is sad. I think the role (DE) could be very valuable to units if were revised to actually be a servant to units and not a slave to council.

[perdidochas]

Working for non-profits are hard to do.  As I mentioned the impetus of the endeavor is the mission, not the profit.  Somehow that gets translated into some sort of accomplishing this without concern for the $$.  Well, a guy's gotta eat, people!  

 

I took a class 35 years ago from a church administrator that indicated that 100 years prior to that the average minister, left seminary, served a parish for 45 years, retired and burned out and went fishing.... At that point the expectation level of the pastor had less than 100 major categories to fulfill.  Fast forward to 35 years ago, the new formula had changed and the average pastor would burn out 2-3 times before retiring.  The rate of pastoral loss continues to decline.  Why?  The number of expectations had increased well over 500%.  Well, I lasted about 15 years and said, enough's enough.  Went to work for the for-profit sector, never looked back.

 

Most of the DE's in our council do not move up to bigger/better jobs in Scouting, they leave the program at a rate of about 4 to 1.  The reason why?  Just listen to the comments on the forum.  The increase in expectations of these people continues to grow at a rather alarming rate.  As the old adage says, "These are very responsible people working for the council.  If something goes wrong, they're responsible."  Unfortunately in today's world that's no longer a joke.

 

My expectations are small of the professionals. I want the records I send to them used to update the records they keep in a timely fashion.  I want them to organize enough training for leaders. And I want them to help me communicate with units around the district. 

 

I have gotten possession of a Pinewood derby track from a Pack that disbanded--it's CO wanted to throw it away, I wanted to give it to a Pack that needed it. I asked my DE if he could email that information out to the Packs (I'm a Boy Scout leader and don't know many Cubmasters anymore). He wouldn't do that for me.   It would have taken him 30 seconds to forward my email to them.  That left a bad taste in my mouth.  Funny thing is, a few weeks later, I mentioned starting up a Venturing Crew. He bent over backwards for that.  Self-serving, IMHO.

[Stosh]

My expectations are small of the professionals. I want the records I send to them used to update the records they keep in a timely fashion.  I want them to organize enough training for leaders. And I want them to help me communicate with units around the district. 

 

I have gotten possession of a Pinewood derby track from a Pack that disbanded--it's CO wanted to throw it away, I wanted to give it to a Pack that needed it. I asked my DE if he could email that information out to the Packs (I'm a Boy Scout leader and don't know many Cubmasters anymore). He wouldn't do that for me.   It would have taken him 30 seconds to forward my email to them.  That left a bad taste in my mouth.  Funny thing is, a few weeks later, I mentioned starting up a Venturing Crew. He bent over backwards for that.  Self-serving, IMHO.

 

A new Crew involves the infusion of membership registrations and money.  The Derby track doesn't.  Once you get that straight in your head, life gets easier......

[SeattlePioneer]

<<BSA is their own worst enemy in that the process is cumbersome, redundant and time-consuming.>> 

 

 

 

I agree completely.

 

BSA and councils are choking on all the paper work and requirements.  There isn't enough paid staff to administer them properly and it creates huge burdens for volunteers as well.

]\

Frankly,  I'd tear out about half of each Cub Scout den book as well.

 

 

BSA is following all the fads and fashions,  and layering them on top of the last set of fads and fashions,  and the ones before that.

[SeattlePioneer]

<<Thanks for the reply. I suspected as much. I can be honest in that, from a unit perspective, I don't see how the DE impacts me:

• FOS: Units see this as a burden and not really something that impacts us. I understand what the money is used for but it really does not impact us. It is seen as BSA asking for "yet another check". If the rate of return is so low then perpetuating this fund raising model is silly. Time and money could be better spent on a better way to raise money.
• Spring Recruitment: Affects Cubs but not Boy Scouts...at least in my area. In all my years of Cubs I never had the DE involved in any of our recruiting. Our success or failure was all our own. Same goes for other packs in our district. The DE has never been around nor provided them with any (useful) materials, strategies or insights. This usually comes from volunteers or word of mouth between units. The DE is MIA on this.
• Summer: Never seen the DE. HE's usually hob-nobbing with the guys in Irving.
• Fall Recruitment: See spring recruitment.
• December/Recharter: This is the only time I get anything from my DE. It is usually a poorly worded email sent out to all units reminding us to get our recharter and JTE paperwork in. >> 
•  
•  
• You have my condolences.

The DEs we typically have at my council do a terrific job for units,  directly and indirectly.

 

I would guess that the difference is good financing for the council which makes it possible to hire much better managers and leaders.   Just guess,  of course.

[desertrat77]

 Recharter time is mostly nightmare for DE's because of carelessness and not following directions at the beginning.  

    But in defense of the units, the rechartering process is the worst of two worlds--a blend of old fashioned paper-based red tape, and clunky software.    Very easy for a unit vol to miss a step or get bogged down.    There is no reason in 2015 to have "rechartering packets" full of papers that must be waded through, with a multitude of steps. 

 

The process should be 100 percent on line.   A series of clicks, an electronic signature, and payment via credit card or electronic withdrawal from the unit checking account.

 

It is also important to note that the vols are busy as well.   They have professions, families, and other civic commitments.   Wading through the BSA's rechartering process at the end of a long day is no picnic for them either.