Getting Your Unit Adult Leaders DROPPED BY Council!

[SeattlePioneer]

A couple of years ago I registered a new adult leader during recharter.   The next year,  he wasn't listed as a current adult leader in the unit.

 

 

We recently had our erecharter packets handed out and the DE explaining recharter methodology.  Someone else mentioned that they had had an adult leader dropped the same as I had.  The DE suggested that this was probably due to lack of some kind of training requirement.  The council will simply drop someone as a leader without notifying anyone.

 

Anyone else heard of this kind of thing?

 

Personally,  I consider it outrageous!  If the council wants to drop someone,  fine,  but you owe the unit leaders and the person involved notice of what's happening and why.

 

 

Personally,  this sounds like a typical example of what has happened due to the administrative complexity that is a growing problem in Scouting.  It's so complex that people take short cuts which are just plain wrong and are discourteous and could be dangerous.

 

A person who is dropped as a den leader, Cubmaster or Scoutmaster may continue leading activities ---what happens if something goes wrong?  Will the council disclaim all responsibility and piously note that the activity was being conducted by an unregistered person?

[cyclops]

There is no 'Polite' point of 'The Law'. They owe you nothing, at least in their view. Something didn't 'compute' so the process kicked them out. It's up to you to follow up and seek some kind of explanation or resolution.

At least that's the way it's been explained to me.

[baggss]

same with merit badge couselors, no news is bad news, they do not tell you if there is a problem, they'll keep any fees, of course

[Eagle94-A1]

SCOUTNET will automatically drop a leader once YPT is expired.

 

ALSO I am told, repeat TOLD do not know for a fact, that if someone's YPT will expire in the upcoming charter year, it will drop that individual from the recharter process. HOWEVER once they go online and do YPT, the name will reappear on the online rechartering process.

 

NOW I got an email stating that my YPT will expire soon and that I would need to redo it in order to recharter.

[Krampus]

SCOUTNET will automatically drop a leader once YPT is expired.

 

 

I have two leaders in that status and they are still on the charter and online. I don't think it's automatic. 

[gumbymaster]

There is no 'Polite' point of 'The Law'. They owe you nothing, at least in their view. Something didn't 'compute' so the process kicked them out. It's up to you to follow up and seek some kind of explanation or resolution.

At least that's the way it's been explained to me.

 

So 'Courteous' doesn't cover that one?

 

 

A Scout is Courteous. A Scout is polite to everyone regardless of age or position. He knows that using good manners makes it easier for people to get along.

 

We get warned that any leader with a YPT that will expire +/- 2 months of rechartering may get dropped.  They put the responsibility of checking the registered leadership on the unit's key 3.  They also mail registration cards for my pack directly to the Cub Master, so that too is another check to make sure the leader's registration went through.

[T2Eagle]

SP,

 

I am curious what you or your fellow leader mean when you say you registered a new leader during recharter.  My understanding is that although the recharter computer system will accept the input of a new leader's information it is not finalized until the council receives and approves a paper application.  A part of the application process now is also that a registration isn't compete or final until the new leader completes YPT --- that is probably what your DE was referring to.

 

I have had leaders have their YPT lapse during the year and they remain, at least according to Scoutnet, on the roster.

 

edited to add that I believe some councils, either on their own initiative or as part of national's pilot program from a few years ago, require leaders to be fully trained for their position.

[Jackdaws]

I could have written this exact post but I am having a problem with the actual scout registrations.   No one from the council tells you anything.  After last year and discovering that our pack wasn't re-charted when I attempted to complete a tour permit.  I have been watching the council like a hawk.   We only had about a week to resolve it.  Luckily we did.  I don't understand how come the council will not give a courtesy call to a leader of a pack that has been around for 20 years?   This should be forwarded by the register to the DE and then they contact the pack.  Did we get anything?  Nope nada zilch! 

 

We have also had to had several leaders fill out their applications multiple times.   And had to pay for their applications multiple times.  Now I am running into them dropping a Webelos 2 scout that has been on the roster since he was a Wolf.  No notice or anything.   

 

Our council has like 1 lady for 15,000 scouts and adults.  I really think she could use an assistant or something... 

 

I am going to the council  here in a moment to drop off more adult applications.  I almost have to stand there and watch her put them in to confirm its handled.  I am going to ask if there is supposed to be a notification process or something.  If I do not get a satisfactory answer I am going to the DE about it.  There really should be some kind of checks and balances system somewhere. 

[Jackdaws]

I should add that in the 3 years of my being involved with scouting we are on our 3rd DE.   Is this pretty common? 

[NJCubScouter]

My understanding from the people on our committee who have handled rechartering (during the YPT-mandatory era) is that our council actually makes very clear in the rechartering paperwork which individuals will be dropped from the charter if they do not renew their YPT before the recharter date. It is then up to the person with the charter paperwork to notify the individuals in question. However, as others have mentioned, there seems to be some separate notification system in place, at least in some councils, that tells people directly when their YPT has a certain amount of time left before expiration. This seems to be separate from the rechartering process. I know I received a letter by email over the summer telling me I had 90 days left before my YPT expired. I do not remember whether it came from national or council.

[Krampus]

@@Jackdaws, we had a similar issue. Here's how we solved it:

• Create a spreadsheet where the horizontal rows are your members, the vertical columns are what you need to collect.
• We collect applications (for new members), recharter form (for existing members), YPT for all adults, insurance and BSA medical forms for adults and scouts, payment and a comprehensive waiver for events. Those are our columns.
• Everyone must submit a complete registration package or we don't accept it. We then check everything off, check for signatures, proper boxes check (i.e., ASM or Committee Member or MBC), etc.
• We set a deadline (mid Nov) and then we submit all of our documentation en mass (with our JTE form) to Council. We have our members keep copies of EVERYTHING they turn in to us.

This process has greatly reduced any errors on our part AND gives us a solid way to track any problems Council may create.

[T2Eagle]

We have also had to had several leaders fill out their applications multiple times.   And had to pay for their applications multiple times.  Now I am running into them dropping a Webelos 2 scout that has been on the roster since he was a Wolf.  No notice or anything.   

 

I am going to ask if there is supposed to be a notification process or something.  If I do not get a satisfactory answer I am going to the DE about it.  There really should be some kind of checks and balances system somewhere. 

Jackdaws, not sure what your position is with your unit, but in my.scouting.org you can see your unit's roster so you can check who is or is not there.  Also, someone in your unit should have access to the Scoutnet Internet Advancement system which is a direct access to who is or is not registered for your unit.  These tools may be restricted to the "Key 3" of your unit, I'm not sure.

 

A tip for anyone turning in paperwork or money to council: keep a copy of everything and only ever pay by check so you can show a cancelled check as proof of payment.

 

I will never understand why BSA insists on having all this data entry done by someone n the council office rather than allowing individuals to register online.  No other organization of our size does that anymore.

[gumbymaster]

I will never understand why BSA insists on having all this data entry done by someone n the council office rather than allowing individuals to register online.  No other organization of our size does that anymore.

 

Registration CAN be done online through the Be-A-Scout system; however most units (mine included) have either not turned on or otherwise disabled that functionality.  Our council ran training on the system two or three years ago.

 

The reasons are that (1) The online system can only collect the national dues, not the dues set by the pack/troop/crew - so this creates confusion;  It also does not have the ability to accomodate units that pay for their adult registrations (2) All three members of the Key-Three have to use the system to validate and authorize adult leader applications; I think only the CM/SM/CA need to validate the member applications.  However, for those more concerend about who knows who running around with the SSNs of adult leaders, this is a viable solution.

 

Most units want to have that in-person, face to face before taking and accepting either a youth or adult leader application.

Edited October 14, 2015 by gumbymaster

[NJCubScouter]

Most units want to have that in-person, face to face before taking and accepting either a youth or adult leader application.

This is probably getting off on a tangent from what this thread is really about, but what else is new.

 

I knew that youth applications could come in from BeAScout, and I have no problem with that. (Although I don't think our troop has that "switched on" either.) But if an adult submits an application online, and he/she doesn't have a son in the unit and nobody in the troop has ever met him or her and has no idea who he/she is... how CAN you accept it without at least meeting the person and finding out why they want to be a leader in your unit? And in that case I would also call the references. While this situation has never happened in any unit I have been involved in - almost every new leader has a son in the unit and in the rare cases where they don't, they are a friend of an existing leader - I can see where someone coming in through BeAScout may be more likely to be an unknown.

[Krampus]

 

Most units want to have that in-person, face to face before taking and accepting either a youth or adult leader application.

 

Not really. I'd rather we have a link we can give our members that allows them to register and pay online, upload their YPT cert (or better yet, have that mapped to their log in from their my.scouting log in) and submit any other info.

 

Most units I know cannot stand to make 1, 2, 10 trips to council to get their paperwork messed up again. They'd rather deal with a good online system that works, with less paperwork, less red tape and less time.

 

I know no one who *wants* to work face to face with anyone at council. That's where the problem happen.