Den Flags

[Stosh]

yes, you're missing something, I was talking specifically about them looking forward to making the streamers with their names on it, to which you said forget the streamers, thats all.  I agree I can let them make the flag, that's fine and gives them even more of a sense of ownership.  According to the committee tho, this flag goes with them straight through to Webelos, so maybe the committee is doing that wrong?  I'll keep it in mind that it only lasts a year.  

 

Okay, that makes sense now.  The streamers would do well to mark the history of anyone who was ever in that den and it may work to the benefit of them staying together in the den.   I'm thinking the hand prints would be more "permanent" to the den than taking a streamer off and putting it on a different den in the years to come. 

 

If one hems the edges and puts grommets in it, it will last longer and could even be a patrol flag when they go into Boy Scouts (unless some adults decide they can't stay together after they cross over).

 

Thanks for the clarification.

[The Latin Scot]

The committee in this case has come up with a really strange ruling. The flag "goes with them straight through to Webelos?" No. Once they are Webelos, they have to come up with a name and flag as part of the Scouting Adventure adventure in practice for the patrol method, and this shouldn't be something they came up with back in Tigers. That's why I liked the idea of using streamers for every boy; it gives them something personal they can add to a flag and, if needs be, take with them, while the flag itself can remain with the den if needed. However, the committee has no right to say whether or not this flag would have to stay with them or move on; that is up to the Den Leaders. If they move on and the Wolf Leader wants to create a new flag with the same boys, that's entirely within his rights. Same with Bears. The Webelos leader all but has to do so as part of the Scouting Adventure adventure. I am glad you are finding a solution to your committee's bizarre mandate.

 

Now, if the Webelos have already come up with a Den Name, then any new boys who enter the Den can just assume the name of that group when they join. So in my Den, we are the Merry Archers, and any new boys become Archers automatically once they join our Den. But to make sure they can still contribute to our Den flag, they each create a new streamer, by themselves and with their name on it, once they join us. As the years go by the flag becomes a history of the Den by keeping on it the names of all those who have been a part of our group.

 

Post Script: seeing as your name here is Gwaihir, I am surprised you haven't gone with the "Eagles" or "the Wind-lords", lol.

[Stosh]

If the requirement in Webelos is to "come up with a den name and flag", couldn't that be interpreted as "coming up from Tigers" with a den name and flag?  Just sayin'......

[The Latin Scot]

That seems like a bit of a stretch to me, but who am I to argue it? lol 

[qwazse]

If the boys say "we'd like to stay Merry Archers" ... sounds like they came up with their patrol name.

It could just as easily go the other way "We're fed up with archery, can we be siege engineers?" Still made up a name.

 

Regardless, the challenge is having the boys settle on what they want -- not just what they think will make us happy ... that they've listened to each other, and if one one boy really wants something a little different, that they figure out how to make him feel like he's contributed ... and convincing them that we scouters are proud of them for their hard work.

[The Latin Scot]

I think that's part of why the program waits until the boys are Webelos Scouts before introducing the concept of choosing a Den name and emblem. Boys younger than 10 have a hard time coming to a consensus on something like representative nomenclature, and their fickle personalities mean that they get bored with what they choose quickly. Finding a good totem for their group is really hard, especially finding one that they will all like. But that's why they already have totems and names selected for them by the Cub Scout program itself - they are the Tigers, then the Wolves, then the Bears. They can personalize those if they wish (the white tigers, the grizzly bears, the timber wolves, etc.), but I think at those ages it's easier to use the totems given and keep things consistent with their ranks and books. 

 

Once they are Webelos however, they no longer have a "given" totem, so that's when they can come up with their own. The "Flying Eagle Webelos Den" works because Webelos is not a totem in and of itself. But the "Flying Eagle Wolf Den" seems strange because they are already the Wolves, so why add another emblem? For this reason, I think that compelling a group to use the same flag could become problematic, not to mention arbitrary and unnecessary. Their name and totem will change with each rank through each year, so I don't think it is a very thoughtful move by a committee to make such a request. Not that they have the authority to do so anyway. 

Edited January 28, 2017 by The Latin Scot

[Deaf Scouter]

My son's Pack did a different version of den spirit through Den blankets for Pack meetings.  We ended up taking a solid blanket and added things to each from each scout using the double sided iron on glue that one uses with fabric.