Helicopter parenting is damaging kids

[Stosh]

" Easy way to introduce challenging activities in a safe environment."

 

 I think they have an app for that.....

 

One has to get their hands dirty to have a real adventure.

[Hedgehog]

All scouting is local.  National sets policy and the general tone.  How the local troop operates is often different.  Boys join scouting because of a marketing promise of adventure.  Some troops do better than others at delivering adventure. 

 

That is really the issue.  The answer is to support the boys in their quest for adventure -- and we get to have some fun along the way too.

 

How do we get the parents of our scouts to understand that some "risk" is good?

 

The parents need to trust us as leaders.  

 

Part of that is being organized and responsive.  Parents need to know that the adult leadership has its act together.  We send out detailed e-mails to the scouts and parents explaining what we are going to do on outings.  They like details like "we will be renting kayaks and life preservers", knowing the mileage each day on a trek, seeing a link to the website of where we are camping, knowing how long it takes to get to the campsite, seeing the map of the hike we are taking.  

 

They also like to see that we know what we are doing.  Our e-mails provide recommendation on what to pack (especially useful for new scouts going on their first campout) and what to wear (no cotton ever) depending on the weather.  

 

Parents also like to be reassured.  I can't tell you how many parents have confided in me that "this is his first time away from home on his own."  All it takes is an "I'll keep an eye on him" to reassure them.  Or how about the "he's never cooked before!"  My response is "we've never had a scout die of starvation... anyway the older guys will help him out and teach him what he needs to know."  I frequently get e-mails from parents asking "is this something good to get?" or asking for recommendations on what to get.  

 

Parents also need to be sold on the program and the idea of being boy-led.  Most parents want their children to learn independence.  As I've said before, I've seen the looks on parent's faces when they pick their kids up after the first week at summer camp and the kid has an ear to ear grin because of what they've accomplished.

[cyclops]

" Easy way to introduce challenging activities in a safe environment."

 

 I think they have an app for that.....

 

I gotta remember that line,

[qwazse]

I tend not to worry about what can't be controlled. You can't controll the environment of fear our parents are immersed in. You can just share your vision of the pinnacle scouting experience.

 

I've boiled it down to "Hiking and camping independently with your mates." Needless to say, I wish National would do the same and treat Jambo and HAs as the elite side-shows for the 1-%-ers that they are. But even if they never do, that little one-liner gives parents a sense of what I'm after.

 

Part of the fun of the game is a parent discovering that little Johnny or Jane is up to the task.

[Eagledad]

All scouting is local.  National sets policy and the general tone.  How the local troop operates is often different.  Boys join scouting because of a marketing promise of adventure.  Some troops do better than others at delivering adventure.  As mentioned earlier, using matches and knifes is an adventure to 11 yr olds.   

 

Troop outings can have similar but varied programs for the various skill and age levels.  Younger less experienced scouts operate from a basecamp and work on skills like Totin Chip, firebuilding, and other skills.  Building a tower or other camp gadgets via rope lashings can be an adventure.   Older or more experienced scouts backpack away from basecamp to a different site for the evening and return the following day.  They can practice land navigation, rock climbing, or other more challenging activities as part of their trek. 

 

 

I didn't include the resqman's whole post, but he pretty much described our troop. However, I disagree with the tone of the discussion that the main struggle for adventure in scouting is with parents, or especially with the helicopter parents. The issue that affects the BSA is lack of adults with the experience to bring adventure into their program. We average 4 to 6 high adventure crews a year and many of our weekend campouts include biking, rappelling, shooting sports, and water sports. We rarely have trouble with parents balking or hesitating to send their sons because we show them our expertise and approaches to safety. The problem with adventure in the boy scouts is finding adults with the expertise and knowledge of safety.

 

As has been pointed out before, less than 75% (my guess is a lot more) of adults joining the program don't have much, if any, scouting or camping experience as a youth. Even a simple car camp out can be a challenge for many young troops. Honestly the BSA isn't that far from the Girls Scouts program today simply because we don't have adults comfortable in the woods. Philmont is popular because they know how to guide these kinds of troops through a memorable safe high adventure experience.

 

Our culture certainly is over protecting our children and it is bleeding into the scouting program. But overall if the troop is willing and makes the effort to learn the skills required for safe outdoor activities, most parents will go a long with it. In fact, I found that they are quite proud of the skills their sons learn from the program. It is interesting to note that most adults are terrified at even the thought of their kids using an axe, and yet they don't have too much concern with simple innocent appearing tree saws that  account for about 70% of woods tool injuries.

 

Think about it for a moment, for those of you who didn't have much experience in the woods during your youth, what did you bring to the program? How did you get up to speed enough that you could take a group of our sons on a simple camp out? This is the challenge of the future BSA.

 

Barry

Edited October 5, 2015 by Eagledad

[Stosh]

I go along with Barry on this one.  Our adults either don't know how to provide adventure or lack the motivation to learn.

 

I wanted to take the boys to BWCA.  I had no idea how to pull this off even with all the years of experience under my belt.  I found a person who had been up there many times and knew the ins and outs of all the outfitters.  I had him take me and a few scouters and their sons up there to teach us.  We came back knowing how to pull off the trek.  The first time the troop had a blast.  The second time another troop my brother was involved with never had gone on any HA and was wondering if our troop and their troop could do a joint HA so they could learn about the BWCA.  

 

Okay, one guide, trek one 8 people, trek 2 18 people, trek 3 18 more people.

 

Okay, since then I have taken hundreds of boys primitive sandbar camping in our local area.  The knowledge base just keeps on expanding.  

 

What if I didn't take the initiative of making the first move?  It is a lot easier to plop camp than expand and make greater and greater opportunities for adventure for the boys.  

 

I'm willing to add to Barry's comments by saying that even with experienced scouters, they don't always take the road less traveled.

 

To-date when it comes to these big trips, we don't get any negative feedback from the parents either. 

[Krampus]

I think I may have discovered a new type of parent: Drone Parents.

 

These are parents that pay lip-service to wanting their son to have all the learning experiences of boy-led, but are secretly in the background doing everything they can to help him with nearly every aspect of scouting (e.g. packing for them, researching MBs, etc.).

[Stosh]

@@Krampus

 

Parents would never pack for the boys!  

 

I had one mom pack for her son,  It was a huge military duffle packed solid.  It was for the 5 days of summer camp.  To make a long story short, it had 24 pairs of socks and no mess kit..... And that was just the beginning, I haven't the time to list the rest..  

[Hedgehog]

The problem with adventure in the boy scouts is finding adults with the expertise and knowledge of safety.

 

I haven't seen that in our Troop.  It seems like we get 2 former scouts (at least one of which are Eagles) as parents every year and another 1 to 2 adults who were not scouts but have experience in multiple areas (bicycling, hiking, climbing, canoeing, etc.)

 

Think about it for a moment, for those of you who didn't have much experience in the woods during your youth, what did you bring to the program? How did you get up to speed enough that you could take a group of our sons on a simple camp out? This is the challenge of the future BSA.

 

Although I grew up curiously wandering around mountains, lakes and forests in Poconos, I probably camped 10 times as a youth, 8 of them being in a friends back yard. Was in Cub Scouts and enjoyed the overnights and activities with the boys.  Got talked into being Cubmaster.  Camped out maybe 10 times in Cub Scouts -- all using a tent that could fit 10 people and sleeping on a Coleman air mattress.

 

I thought Boy Scouts was all about adventure, so I started reading everything I could about backpacking.  The ASM in charge of the outdoor program was leaving and I figured I could help out, so I researched every BSA camp and state park within a 150 mile radius.  Took IOLS and WFA training.  At IOLS, got interested in camp cooking - worked with the boys to do foil burgers and dutch oven pasta on the first campout I went on.  One week while I was stuck in a hotel room on a busines trip, I took every possible on-line certification.  Started reading about Dutch Oven cooking, bought a Dutch Oven, bought some cookbooks, bought another Dutch Oven.  I had no background of what the Troop's outdoor program was in the past, so I proposed what I thought was good ideas to the boys -- they agreed, glad to not be doing the same old thing.  The Troop now rarely "just camps."  We canoe, kayak, shoot, do COPE, climb, hike, backpack.  Dutch Ovens now go on every campout and are used to cook dinner and desserts -- dump cakes are now standard.

 

You don't need experience, just someone who is interested and willing to learn.

[DuctTape]

An adult with no experience can learn along with the boys. The boys have less risk aversion and thus are usually more interested in taking the next step of the adventure continuum if we let them. Too often adults either dont allow the scouts to take the next step or they try to push the scouts to take too big a step which requires the adult to do too much.

 

For the former, I encourage the scouts to take the next step in their adventure by telling stories and asking questions. For the latter, I ask the adult which scout is leading the adventure.

[DuctTape]

Besides helicopter parents; those who hover waiting to swoop in to save, there are also velcro parents who are attached to their childs hip for all activities. They have a difficult time separating their childs activities from their own.

[Eagledad]

Besides helicopter parents; those who hover waiting to swoop in to save, there are also velcro parents who are attached to their childs hip for all activities. They have a difficult time separating their childs activities from their own.

300 ft. between the adults and patrols solved that for us.

 

We don't actually walk off 300 ft., but we try to get out of sight and sound from the scouts. I didn't realize how far that was until a patrol leader woke me up 3:00 one morning to tell me about a sick scout. I told him I would meet him there after I got dressed. It was a moonless night in the dense woods and I like to never found their campsite. Maybe we  should consider 250ft.. (:

 

Barry

Edited October 5, 2015 by Eagledad

[perdidochas]

@@Krampus

 

Parents would never pack for the boys!  

 

I had one mom pack for her son,  It was a huge military duffle packed solid.  It was for the 5 days of summer camp.  To make a long story short, it had 24 pairs of socks and no mess kit..... And that was just the beginning, I haven't the time to list the rest..  

 

I have never understood the "pack for the boys" concept.  I have two sons (now Eagles), and I have never packed their packs since Webelos (I may have when they were Tigers, wolves, bears).  I have told them to remember certain things, but I have no idea what they have packed for any particular campout. Admittedly, my youngest son once went to summer camp with two pairs of socks (one packed, and one he wore for travel).  They have had to improvise due to forgetting things.  I sadly admit that on talking with other Troop parents (even leaders), that they give me a shocked expression when I say I've never packed the boys' stuff.  Interestingly, their sons aren't as self sufficient as I would like to see in Scouts. 

[Eagledad]

I have never understood the "pack for the boys" concept.  I have two sons (now Eagles), and I have never packed their packs since Webelos (I may have when they were Tigers, wolves, bears).  I have told them to remember certain things, but I have no idea what they have packed for any particular campout. Admittedly, my youngest son once went to summer camp with two pairs of socks (one packed, and one he wore for travel).  They have had to improvise due to forgetting things.  I sadly admit that on talking with other Troop parents (even leaders), that they give me a shocked expression when I say I've never packed the boys' stuff.  Interestingly, their sons aren't as self sufficient as I would like to see in Scouts. 

Well we all have to learn these things. I honestly don't remember how my sons learned to pack. I'm sure I was somewhere in the system, but I never packed for them. However, I will never forget a scout who brought one pair of underwear to summer camp for the whole week. When we asked why he was always wearing his swimsuit, he broke down in tears admitting to his problem. When we got back home, I approached the father about it and he looked strait into my face to say, "we were just trying to follow your advice of letting scouts pack themselves". He was pretty angry with me and I learned a lesson of being a little more explicit when guiding parents to how they can help their son become more independent. 

 

Barry

Edited October 5, 2015 by Eagledad

[Krampus]

Besides helicopter parents; those who hover waiting to swoop in to save, there are also velcro parents who are attached to their childs hip for all activities. They have a difficult time separating their childs activities from their own.

 

I usually send the SPL or PL over and have them invite the parent to go back to the adult area and enjoy the adult activities. After having that done 2-3 times during their first or second camp out they get the idea. I have only had one parent not take the hint. They left the troop because, and I quote, "The boys were just too hands on for their own good." I am not sure what that means, but I think it means we were doing something right.

 

I have never understood the "pack for the boys" concept.  I have two sons (now Eagles), and I have never packed their packs since Webelos (I may have when they were Tigers, wolves, bears).  I have told them to remember certain things, but I have no idea what they have packed for any particular campout. 

 

I did the same. I taught him to pack as a Tiger. Checked during Wolf and Bear years (think old fashioned shake down). After Bear I left him to it. He's got his packing list, he uses it. I have not checked in well over 8 years. Now 17 and almost Eagle, he's better at packing than I am. Had to borrow his lip balm on the trail...he has yet to let me live that down. 

Edited October 5, 2015 by Krampus