Helicopter parenting is damaging kids

[Rick_in_CA]

I just came across this article on the Psychology Today website about the importance of risky play for children's development: Risky Play: Why Children Love It and Need It. In the article, the author talks about how preventing children from taking risks actually causes harm.

 

In another article, he also talks about how depriving kids of unstructured play time away from adult supervision is creating adults that are finding it hard to function on their own: Declining Student Resilience: A Serious Problem for Colleges.

 

The information isn't really new, but it got me thinking.

 

The GTSS (Guide to Safe Scouting) is full of rules that prevent scouts from taking risks (climbing trees, using a little red wagon, etc.) or being away from adult supervision, all in the name of "safety". It looks like many of these rules (not all) are actually causing more harm than good.

 

The BSA used to be about teaching kids how to cope with risk and developing independence, no longer. Yes, this is not just a BSA problem. But instead of pandering to the fear culture like they do now, I believe that the BSA should be a champion of the "free range kids" movement (or something like it). It should be out front arguing that some risk is good, and that kids should be given opportunities to test themselves and learn independence (bring back patrol camping). It should be pushing back when politicians propose laws and regulations that increase the restrictions on kids based on fear.

 

The point of this thread, is not to simply complain, but ask: What can we do about it? How do we push back against National's climate of "safety at all costs"? Write letters to national? Phone calls to the CE? How do we handle this with our own units? Do we start to ignore the parts of the GTSS and YPT that are ridiculous and just theater? And if we do, what kind of risks are we exposing ourselves too? How do we get the parents of our scouts to understand that some "risk" is good?

 

It looks like the evidence is in, overprotecting our kids is causing real harm. What can we do?

Edited October 2, 2015 by Rick_in_CA

[Hedgehog]

There are plenty of risks and adventures out there within G2SS.  Canoeing on a river, sea kayaking, whitewater rafting, rock climbing on a real rock cliff all have controlled risks -- but for an 11 year old it is the adventure of a lifetime.  How about a backpacking trek on a path called "The Devil's Pass"or the rim of the Pennsylvania Grand Canyon?  Bouldering at Hawk Mountain Sanctuary or at Sunfish Pond on the AT? Our District camporee next weekend has Tomahawk and Knife throwing.  How about taking a swim in a pond or river you encounter while hiking (in accordance with Safe Swim guidelines)?  I like the idea of taking kids and dropping them off only with a day pack and map and compass (and an adult in the back who only intervenes in cases of safety) and having them find their way to a rendezvous point for dinner.  

 

Heck, letting the recently crossed over scouts just whittle a stick or light a fire is an adventure for them!  Lighting match-light charcoal (G2SS says no liquid fuels used by scouts) can even be an exciting learning experience for kids.  Better yet, have them use tongs to take embers out of a fire to use on a Dutch Oven.  One of my favorite things is when the scouts borrow my bushcraft knife to baton wood.  Dangerous? -- not if you teach them how to do it correctly.

 

My wife gets worried when my son goes ahead to explore on hikes or takes a walk by himself when we are camping.  I tell her that he will be fine... or he will just learn a tough lesson.  But then again, I was raised being able to wander around the woods in the Poconos by myself for hours at a time when I was his age.

[scoutldr]

So, Hedgehog, you don't use the Buddy System in your troop?  I would be worried, too.

[Eagle94-A1]

Issue with the GTSS IMHO is that it is written by health and safety folks who are either using laws that reality should not apply to BSA ( remember when that little red wagon rule came out, it was based upon Department of Labor laws for business), or are heavily influenced by lawyers and our society's excessive demand for lawsuits. Heck I was even told to sue someone who helped me out when I was injured on the beach.

[Stosh]

I have been following this dynamic in our youth since I took psychology in college and started working with kids.  I have been involved with youth development programs (not just BSA) for 45+ years.  The writer of this article is spot on and any response from BSA with their G2SS is nothing more than legalese CYA policy from BSA.  Their #1 priority is not youth leadership development, it is legal litigation avoidance.  From purely a mathematical Boolean perspective, Boys sign on for the fun and adventure being marketed by BSA.  BSA has in place policies which prioritize safety and avoidance of legal entanglements.  Adventure involves a certain amount of risk to be an adventure.  The greater the risk the greater the adventure.  Just use wall climbing vs. mountain climbing as an example.  Do the math on the adventure to risk factors involved and then tell me if BSA is providing the youth with what they are signed on for and paying for;  .  

 

Youth today are at a greater risk of never leaving the parent's basement than they are on any youth activity BSA or not.  Gee, how many boys get hurt on a regular basis in sports?  Why would anyone want their kid to play sports?  The way it's set up now, kids are safer on a BSA activity than any Chess Club activity.  I wonder how much longer BSA will keep the Chess MB before it becomes obvious the risk factors involved and they drop it.

[Eagledad]

Litigation risk aside, outdoor adventure when I was a kid is different than now. "It's a lot riskier". When I was a scout, there weren't climbing walls or repelling towers. The most risky activity I ever did in a troop was back packing. I don't ever remember being scared on a scouting activity until I tried repelling as a Scout Leader. Back packing in my scouting youth is pretty tamed compared with many of today's activities. Oh there where scouts who did climbing and repelling and stuff, but they were in Explorer Posts. I even belong in a Scuba Explorer Post at age 16.

 

I was talking to our Summer Camp Director several years ago. He was brought in to help reverse the trend of troops going to other counsels for summer camp. He said that most camps they are competing with have horses and mountain bikes. He said, "Barry, the insurance the counsel has to get for mountain biking alone is triple the cost of any other activity in our camp including shooting sports". It's not just the helicopter parenting culture that the BSA is competing with, it is also the higher expectation of riskier adventure. Compared to some YMCA summer camp activities, BSA camps are pretty low energy. 

 

Barry

Edited October 2, 2015 by Eagledad

[Hedgehog]

So, Hedgehog, you don't use the Buddy System in your troop?  I would be worried, too.

The Troop uses the buddy system. When it is camping or hiking with my just wife and son, he is allowed to go off on his own to explore the surrounding area or to hike ahead of us.

[Krampus]

We are honest with the parents that join our troop about a few things:

• Kids are going to argue. Yeah, this is Boy Scouts and scouts are expected to live the Oath and Law, but nobody is perfect, these kids see each other at school and sports, so conflicts are going to happen. We let the resolve but monitor for safety. Bullying is strictly monitored.
• Colorful language will get dropped at some point. We're not monks. Even a monk might curse if he hits his thumb with a hammer. 11-17 year old boys are no different.
• Society, social media, parenting styles all impact how guys act in school as well as scouts. We don't expect saints but don't be surprised if a scout (or YOUR scout) is an Eddie Haskell in the making.
• Accidents happen. When you hike, canoe, swim, ski, shoot and do all the things we do, Timmy WILL get injured despite all the training and prep we do. Deal with it and don't look to blame others. Most accidents come from Timmy not paying attention.
• Hold your scout responsible. Unless you hover over him at school, as he plays sports or when he's out playing with his friends, don't hover over him at scouts.

Some parents (not many) want more hands on. Great, there's plenty of troops in my area that will do that. The parents that stay with us accept this philosophy and try to hold their kids accountable. We lose about 5 kids a year because their parents didn't pay attention at crossover as to how we work, but we more than make up for that in transfers in and recruiting.

[MattR]

When I was a boy I'd just put that big ol' knife twixt my teeth, jump that boar, and we'd have us some fun.

 

I don't know, it just sounded fun to say. Actually, scouting always was, in my mind, really good at training safety and then letting the scouts do things that others would not. When I was a kid the guy at the rifle range was not to be crossed. He was a crusty old coot and he was very serious about safety. I'll never forget that guy and many years later, when some idiot was showing off his gun by swinging it around, that old coot jumped up in my mind and I told the idiot to put the gun down. When he said it wasn't loaded I said it didn't matter, always treat it as if it was. He opened the chamber to prove to me it was okay and guess what, it had a bullet in it. "wow man, I didn't know that." That's what scouts does well. I let scouts play on rocks over their waist, but we always have a talk about not screwing around, respecting nature, and looking out for everyone. That and if I see anyone break those rules it's over for everyone. They're good with it.

 

I don't think the solution is to just say don't worry about it. I can't impact national, but I can make a good program for my troop and hopefully people will notice.

 

The squirt gun thing is something totally different. If the ex secdef/ head of the CIA is in scouts, can't someone just say hey, let's stop being stupid?

[Stosh]

I shot bird shot in a .22 when I was in scout summer camp, the rest of the time I hunted .22 and .410 and occasionally a 12-gauge and did plenty of range shooting on the high school shooting range while in the rifle club.  My buddies and I camped alone 5-6 times a year with no adults around.  All in all, I always found more "adventure" outside of scouts, but the program was really poorly run by the local adults.  Finally joined Civil Air Patrol and got a ton of hours in flying and my radio license.

[cyclops]

I hunted and fished alone and sometimes with buddies as a boy. Fishing from 8 years, hunting from 10. Cleaned and ate what I caught and killed. I wandered the woods alone most of the time, sometimes with buddies. We climbed cliffs, no ropes, swam in lakes, no lifeguard, played on dam spillways, lots of risks. Scouts, in comparison, was protected and tame. But it was about the only option for testing ourselves against each other. Patrols competed with other patrols. Boys competed with other boys. We all had fun and mastered scoutcraft.

If our parents had known the kinds of things we did and if they had the abilities to control like they have today, I suspect we all would have heard those helicopters. It was a different time.

[DuctTape]

Like others, I grew up camping, canoeing and fishing. It was all with my family. As I got older I remember we (my sister and I) were allowed to ask a friend to join us for the camping trips. These were car plop trips, tons of fun with a buddy along. Fishing and canoeing became a father-son thing and stayed that way until I went away to college.

 

At some point in elem school I came home and said I wanted to join cub scouts. My father was in scouts as was his father, but he didnt want to push me into it. He was happy I chose to do it on my own. He and 3 other adults shared being den leader and we rotated after school to their houses for den meetings. I recall a lot of fun, woodworking, leathercraft. Built small bridges with wood and cardboard and played with our matchbox cars on them. I am sure this was part of some arrow point or bead as I still have all those items. I do not recall caring too much about rank or awards at the time.

 

The pack events were lame. Big productions, the pinewood derby and banquets. Not much went on for us, we spent most of our time goofing around within the adult scheduled agenda. The only fun part I remember about the pinewood derby was at our den meetings when we had fun building our cars. They were ugly and not superfast, they had zero adult interference. They were ours, and because of that we were proud of them.

 

I did get the arrow of light. I recall being proud of that achievement. Our Webelos den visited a number of troops that spring. We went on a few of their camping trips. I recall one in a big cabin where all we did was sit inside and play cards the whole time. Half of the den chose one troop, and about a quarter went to another. I went with the larger group.

 

We didnt join the troops we visited that spring, we waited until the fall. We did one last webelos camping trip that summer.

 

In the fall when we all joined our troops there was no ceremony. We showed up and the patrols were already together iirc. Somehow we ended up in the patrols which had some older boys in them . I dont remember seeing tha adults much, I think they were in a different room. The oldest boys in my patrol were the PL's turns out they were only a few years older than me. But at this age, one or 2 years older seems like a lot. I looked up to them both figuratively and literally.

 

We had troop campouts but did everything as a patrol. A lot of scout skill games at troop meetings, patrol vs patrol. Went to summer camp and had great times.

 

I do not recall my age or rank, but at some point at my fathers insistence we switched to a different troop. I found out years later there was a serious safety concern that would not be addressed by the SM.

At the new troop wwere some of the guys from my old webelos den plus others I didnt know.

 

This troop was also a patrol method, boy led troop. Though there was more focus on advancement. To shorten this tale, I continued with this troop until the end of high school. We backpacked, canoe camped, did summer camp. It was a very positive experience.

 

Throughout my scouting time, my father and I continued our own adventures. I would often invite a scouting friend to join us. Sometimes we would go back to our patrol and suggest a new idea based on what we did with my dad (sometimes my buddy's dad came too). My patrol hated cleaning pots and pans so we became rather adept at cooking in the coals (no stoves). We had aluminum foil trash to deal with, but that trade-off was worth it. I recall one meal my buddy jeff did for us: pork chops with onions and apples in the foil. It was really good. We cooked stick bread to go with it.

 

After college I was hiking in the area where I had done my eagle project and noticed that others had continued and maintained the work I had done many years before. That made me feel good. It also reminded me of how much scouting meant to me so I began my career volunteering at local troops. I have no boys of my own, but I am obliged to give back.

[DuctTape]

I guess I went off on a tangent if my scouting and didnt stay on topic of the free-range kids. But that was a common theme in the scouts for us. Adults were around, but we didnt see them. We made all our own decisions.

 

In the neighborhood, the kids were often in some group playing somewhere. It was like a neighborhhod patrol, but just not scouts. We played in the woods, rode our bikes. Went fishing. Be home for dinner and tell us where you are going were the only requirements.

[Twocubdad]

My campouts as a youth were generally limited to hanging out with my patrol mates, tending a pot of chili or soup all day and staying up most of the night pondering the universe. My first time rock climbing, horseback riding, shooting a rifle, exploring a mine or trying lumberjack sports came at Philmont. The first canoe trek I took was with our OA chapter (which functioned like a HA Venture crew) was at age 15 or 16. Troops simply didn't have the equipment or expertise to pull off these activities.

I've always called this the Mountain Dew Effect. Caffine aside, kids seem to think Scouting is supposed to look like a Mountain Dew commercial -- take a long swig then ride your mountain bike down the side of El Capitan.  Forget that the guy riding the bike is actually a 48-year-old stuntman with 30 years experience and that shot took six month and $3mil to set up.

 

But that genie is out of the bottle.  I think part of the problem is that BSA has oversold HA, beyond the ability of most units to deliver.  We're fortunate that we have ASM with climbing, shooting and aquatics certifications, but how many troops can do that.  In any given year, we hit most of those formerly once-in-a-lifetime activities I did at Philmont.  Not every troop has that ability.

 

I've written this before, but I think council camps need to start looking more like guide services.  Camps have millions in infrastructure and equipment which is used 5 or 6 weeks a year.  Sure, camps are available to troops the rest of the year, but without certified instructors, the activities Scouts want are unavailable to most troops.  Councils need to be making staffed facilities available to troops year-round.  I would think that would help the liability issue, too, as a few certified instructors are much easier to supervise than a bunch of troop level guys.

 

I know funding is an issue, but if troops could pay a fraction of what a commercial outfitter does, it could work. IMO this was part of the idea behind The Summit.  But even their "summer camp" weeks are pretty pricey -- three days on the ground there is twice the price of a full week of camp, and we're only about three hours away.  Still in the category of  Philmont or Seabase.   Is Scouting is local, national needs to be figuring out how to fund councils to make things like this work.  (Frankly, I think the usual council business model is broken and needs to be fixed.  Why our ever-increasing membership fee goes to national when most unit support comes from the councils, I don't know.  But that's another thread. )

[resqman]

It looks like the evidence is in, overprotecting our kids is causing real harm. What can we do?

 

All scouting is local.  National sets policy and the general tone.  How the local troop operates is often different.  Boys join scouting because of a marketing promise of adventure.  Some troops do better than others at delivering adventure.  As mentioned earlier, using matches and knifes is an adventure to 11 yr olds.   

 

Troop outings can have similar but varied programs for the various skill and age levels.  Younger less experienced scouts operate from a basecamp and work on skills like Totin Chip, firebuilding, and other skills.  Building a tower or other camp gadgets via rope lashings can be an adventure.   Older or more experienced scouts backpack away from basecamp to a different site for the evening and return the following day.  They can practice land navigation, rock climbing, or other more challenging activities as part of their trek. 

 

Out troop sends a crew to Northern Tier, Philmont, Betchel, or Sea Base each year.  The months leading up to the trip, the crew is involved in various training activities to prepare them for their more strenuous tasks.  Troop rotates thru the 4 bases so between ages 14 and 18 a scout could attend all 4 bases.  The skills learned and practiced at the bases comes back to the troop as experienced scouts who make better Patrol leaders and SPLs.  Requests for more challenging monthly campouts are fed to the PLC and the skill level of all the scouts increases. 

 

If you want to limit helicopter parenting, limit adult attendance to only uniformed leaders and only as many as needed to drive the scouts to the event.  Seed the PLC with ideas for more adventurous outings.  Recommend alternating between costly trips and local trips to allow all scouts to participate in the troop calendar.  Encourage 14 yr old + scouts to earn Scout Lifeguard so the troop can operate its own outdoor water programs. 

 

Flat water canoeing on the local lake is very doable for an entire troop.  The council often has canoes available to check out and use for weekends. High adventure crew hones skills before setting off to BWCA.  Younger scouts can work on the canoeing MB.  Maybe attend a white water outfitter for a rafting adventure.  Similar but different skills.  The National White Water training facility in North Carolina is like a Adventure park for scouts.  White water rafting, Zip lines, flat water canoeing, artificial rock wall climbing.  What's not to like?   Troop camps at nearby camp ground to contain costs. 

 

Indoor climbing gyms can easily host a weekend bouldering and climbing session.  The gym has qualified instructors and safety equipment.  Easy way to introduce challenging activities in a safe environment.   Follow up with a weekend at the local scout camp climbing tower.  Then climbing on real rock.   Easy ramp up from intro to topic to outdoor challenge.  All within the G2SS and relatively low cost.  Younger scouts get a taste and yearning for the next level.  Older scouts get to test themselves.