A week at Local council scout camp or National Scout Camp?

[RememberSchiff]

Our local summer camps charge around $370/scout. National scout camp is $399; transportation there would be more.

 

Our local camps are focused on merit badges and Trail to Eagle programs. National scout camp appear focused on outdoor fun/merit badges and entertainment.

 

http://www.summitbsa.org/programs/scout-camp/

 

Should councils nearby the Summit start selling their camps or step-up and compete against National?

 

Robbing from Peter to pay Paul?

[skyfiiire]

I can tell you growing up, my troop called no camp home. In fact in my 7 years as a boy we never attended our council's camp, We also alternated even/odd years: even years, we attended a resident camp, odd years we did our own thing for summer camp. I got exposed to some amazing opportunities this way. One year we went to a place called Haliburton Scout Reservation, which is part of Scouts Canada. Haliburton is a resident camp that is completely canoe based: all campsites and activity areas are spaced out around a large lake, and you have to canoe to everything. Never would have experienced that if I went to my local camp every summer.

[RememberSchiff]

We try other council camps as well. Greater adventure and learning experience for scouts.

 

Makes me wonder, when we are an "out of council" troop at a summer camp, we usually pay $20-50 more per scout than local troops. Does that money get kick-backed to our council to relieve their financial loss for one of their troops leaving their reservation or is it winner take all?

[Krampus]

We co-mingle summer camp with council high adventure. We try to stay at camps that offer a balance between adventure, MBs, first year scout and decent cost (under $320). Most usually offer rates between $220-280 for out of council troops but they usually offer 1-5 free adults. Transport usually runs us about $300/scout for a bus. Not cheap but if you have ever spent summer camp in Texas you'd know why we leave for cooler climates. 

[RememberSchiff]

http://www.summitbsa.org/programs/scout-camp/

 

Council Adventure Partnership

Price Varies by Local Council

 

The Council Adventure Partnership serves as an older boy adventure program for a local council camp. Scouts begin and end their week at their council resident camp with their unit. However, rather than participating in that camp’s program during the week they are transported in a council contingent for Scout Camp program at The Summit. Interested groups should encourage their council Program Director, Camp Director, or Scout Executive to contact The Summit about taking advantage of this opportunity. More info can be found here [link to Council Adventure subpage]

 

Note: This program does not include open access to high adventure venues (ie- The “Big†Zip, Barrels, Rocks, etc). Groups interested in Council Contingents for the Paul R. Christen National High Adventure Base should visit this page [link to PRCHAB Council Contingent info].

 

Huh?? Sorry this makes no sense to old Schiff. Well unless this is a step towards requiring units book through their local council (who take their cut) to attend Summit.   

Edited October 14, 2015 by RememberSchiff

[qwazse]

...

Huh?? Sorry this makes no sense to old Schiff. Well unless this is a step towards requiring units book through their local council (who take their cut) to attend Summit.   

Boil some frogs and you'll understand. The idea is to get a volume of youth passing through from which a percentage will get comfortable with the notion of shelling out $700-plus-transport for a HA week in the following year(s).

 

Much of this seems like the downstream effect of lackluster jamboree attendance relative to completely unrealistic goals -- assuming that 7% of membership would participate when never in history has more that 4.8% attended.

[T2Eagle]

I received this big brochure yesterday in the mail and had some discussions at a district activity meeting last night.  We are about 6 hours from the Summit and this is feasible for us so I have a few thoughts on these programs.

 

A couple folks at last night's meeting are on the Council Camping committee and they hadn't heard anything about the Council Adventure Partnership so apparently we're not participating yet.  I could see this working, our Council summer camp is topographically challenged and there is no high adventure so programming gets pretty thin for our older scouts.  I could see a couple of older scouts each from a handful of troops helping to set up our camp on Sunday and then taking off for the midweek to the Summit for some real adventure and returning Friday. 

 

If the week long cost is really $299 that's competitive with our Council camp, there would of course be higher transportation costs, but not a deal breaker.

 

I'm not sure if the Appalachian Adventure is cost competitive.  We went whitewater rafting on the New for a three day weekend last year and stayed at the outfitter's camp.  Total cost for us including food, transportation,  a day of rafting, and a day in the toy filled outfitter lake was $220 --- the same price they want.  It's not clear whether their program includes meals which would at least put it in the ball park.

 

Finally, it strikes me that 6 days at the Summit is $299 with paid staff members, but 10 days at Jambo costs $925 with volunteer staffing.  I know it's not fully apples to apples but it gives me some pause.

Edited October 14, 2015 by T2Eagle

[T2Eagle]

One more note, we had 20 scouts attend our Council camp last year.  Looking at the roster, given that you have to have attended at least two weeks (years?) of resident camp to be eligible, we would have had 8 scouts that could go to the summit instead.  If all or even almost all of them went to the Summit we would have been almost bereft of scout leadership for summer camp, and that would really change  the dynamic of what summer camp means.

 

We had 5 other scouts go to Philmont, which we do about every two years, none of them went to summer camp, but probably two would have if they weren't on that trek.  

[Krampus]

Very odd and very weird program. Part of the allure to scouting in my area is going OUTSIDE our council for summer camp. If you've ever spent more than one summer in Texas you'd know why.  

 

While I think we have some great camps (Sid Richardson), my guys won't spend a week in Texas during the summer. With so many options out there they want to experience what others have to offer.

[SSScout]

The Summit is one more opportunity.   Ya pays yer money and ya takes yer cherce, as the carny barker said.

 

Brings up the problem visited in other threads:  Promotion and use of Scout properties.   If BSA had the membership to truly utilize the properties we have available (Philmont, Council camps, Owasippe, Bayport, etc. )  we might not have the problem of sell offs.  Then again, if BSA promoted itself as the young person's outdoor adventure outfit, rather than the good citizen education outfit, we might have a chance to BE the GCE outfit by means of being the YPOA outfit.