"field uniform"

[SSScout]

Collar, no collar.

Shirt in, shirt out.

Official Switch Backs, Columbia cargo trou.

Green shorts, blue jeans.

Red Tabs, sort of green tabs.

Epaulets, no epaulets.

Oscar De La Renta,  Oscar Delarenta, Oscar De La Purchase.

Necker, No necker, Bolo tie,  bare collar.

Woodbadge Beads, Turks Head woggle, Dove Necker or no.

Tottin' Chip, Fire Man's Chit, OA patch.

Commish, ASM, oh heck.

Scout Cap '08, Scout Cap '14, Commish Cap, WB cap, Jambo cap, CSDC Cap.

Web belt, Jambo belt, Philmont belt, OA belt, brass buckle, plastic buckle.

Getting to be too cold for shorts.

No cotton socks, only wool on these feet.

Haven't found replacements for my "most comfortable boots ever" (no blisters in 3000+ kms!), altho they are splitting at the seams.

 

Decisions, decisions, decisions.....  What's a Scout (or Scouter?) to do?

[TAHAWK]

 W h at                to do?  Find that statement from National that it's "field uniform."  

[qwazse]

Indeed, repeatedly used by Scouting.

 

But your list is not all  "is used."  Many are "were used.

And if you click on the first link drawn by your search, it's the BSA uniform site that nowhere mentions a "field uniform."

 

And in the Boy Scout Handbook or Handbook for Scoutmasters?

And on official inspection sheets?

 ...

All of them "were used"... even the ones from the past month. The current insignia guide used the term twice in section 3.

 

The common parlance, if not currently sanctioned in a reference common to every scout and scouter, has not been repealed.

[TAHAWK]

Certainly.  I never suggested that slang has been "repealed."  Especially if never "enacted," it cannot be  "repealed."

 

Nor have I even suggested that there is anything "wrong" with "Class A," for example, beyond newbies have to be told what in the world "A" is vs "B." Hardly worth getting all fired up over.  Call it anything you like.  Call it a "pickle."

 

Anyone have an answer to my original question or my follow-up in post 32?

[qwazse]

...

Anyone have an answer to my original question or my follow-up in post 32?

Yes, regarding the first time the term in writing, post #2 suggests 1990. And regarding continued use to this day post #33 notes two references (p.56 in addition to your p. 57).

 

You seem to suggest this is not sufficient, which I find odd because BSA Rules and Regulations (X.4.2) references "official uniforms ... as illustrated and correctly described in the handbooks, catalogs, and other official publications of the Boy Scouts of America."

 

Is not the Insignia Guide an official publication? Is that not sufficient to note that the term is allowed in current parlance? Are not the Scouting blogs sufficient to note that the usage continues to be preferred over other terms commonly used for the same thing?

 

Those few sources should not be taken lightly ... even if they don't satisfy the prescriptivists in the room.

For the descriptivists ... there's room for speculation ...

 

It seems clear to me that the writers of the guide wanted to identify specific elements (Wood Badge beads and O/A sashes) that are not to be worn on "activity clothes" (or, I believe, implicitly "dress uniforms"). These elements aren't a concern for "newbies" so it is fair to say that BSA intends the term to be used for scouts and scouters who've probably acquired a variety of scouting wear, and might without guidance use such elements out of their place. (Not that any writers here are wont to do that .)

 

The "Class _" terms, on the other hand are not found in any official BSA publication.

 

So, I think its fair to say that for the last 25 years, BSA has officially used "field uniform" sparingly for instructional purposes as opposed to marketing. I have seen no indication that it will cease doing so anytime soon. Nor, with the advent of the blogosphere, do I foresee National desiring to use it in other official publications.

Edited October 4, 2015 by qwazse

[cyclops]

Certainly.  I never suggested that slang has been "repealed."  Especially if never "enacted," it cannot be  "repealed."

 

Nor have I even suggested that there is anything "wrong" with "Class A," for example, beyond newbies have to be told what in the world "A" is vs "B." Hardly worth getting all fired up over.  Call it anything you like.  Call it a "pickle."

 

Anyone have an answer to my original question or my follow-up in post 32?

I'm going to defend TAHAWK here and I agree with him. Hardly worth getting all fired up over. And never, EVER mention the 'P-word'.

 

"Flashy"? Talking about socks and garters? How about "dapper"? Or "neat" or "keen"? "debonair", "dashing"?

 

Plus, I want to thank TAHAWK who reminded me of Hanlon's Razor (great line) which I followed down the 'rabbit hole' to the Battle of Thermopylae and on to various topographical features I sometimes deal with, to the origins of the names of some plants, back up to biogeography and the early European exploration of South America and Africa to continental drift - to coal mining and air pollution....it's a great path of adventure and all because of that wonderful reminder. Thanks.

Edited October 4, 2015 by cyclops

[Eagle94-A1]

BSA has major issues with consistency in their literature. This is one example. The SCOUTING MAGAZINE article is another example. A third example is the current discussion of a facebook page regarding the SUMMERTIME AWARD. Current BSA program year is Sept. to Aug. Yet Cubs move to the next level and begin worming on new rank June 1st. This inconsistancy has started multipple debates on the SUMMERTIME AWARD.

 

But the best example of BSA's inconsistancy is venture/Venturing. From Aug. 1989 to Aug. 1998, a venture crew was what you called your older Scout patrol, were called Venture Scouts, and had their own additional awards they could earn in the Varsity/Venture Letter and the assorted pins. Then BSA decided to call tradional Exploring ''Venturing'' when it split, its units ''crews'' and its Member ''Venturers''. It was mentioned to the nat. Venturing dir. The use of similar terms, and. the confusion it would, and continues 17 years later, to cause.

[TAHAWK]

We started out in this thread with "field uniform" being used in the Guide to Awards and Insignia, an "official publication."  So that is a given.

 

It is also regularly used in Scouting [magazine].

 

It also seems to be the case that "field uniform" is not currently used in any other "official" publication," including those most in use, the handbooks, and the publications  exclusively dedicated to the uniform, BSA's uniform website and the uniform inspection sheets.  http://bsauniforms.org/

 

I am at a point where I would like help in discovering when "field uniform" was first used, if it was ever "official," and, if official, when it ceased to be official.  I am aware that some questions are never answered.

 

Handbooks

Thus far, I cannot find "field uniform" in a handbook, for boys or Scoutmasters.

 

Boys' Life

I have found the label "field uniform" used in Boys' Life in February, 1978, as a caption to pictures of the new uniform for female Scouters": "the Khaki Field Uniform for today's active ladies involved in the Scout program."

 

In  January, 1973, "Pedro" referred answered a question with a reference to: "the right sleeve of the green field uniform."

 

Every other reference I can find in Boys' Life is to "the Uniform," "the Official Uniform," or "the Scout Uniform."

 

Scouting

Scouting, an official organ of the National Council, presents the inconsistent picture I, at least, have come to expect from our professionals.  For example, it both states that the Patrol method is essential to Scouting AND  publishes a story that clearly portrays the Patrol method as an option to be used or discarded at the adults' choice depending on how happy the adults are with the results.

 

So, while continuing to use "field uniform," Scouting has said:

 

 

 

First, when referring to uniforms, Class A and Class B are military terms that are not used in the BSA. The correct Scouting terms for the two versions of the uniform are "official uniform" and "activity uniform." Although less formal, the activity uniform is still considered an official uniform, and therefore it is appropriate for boys to use the Scout salute while wearing it during a flag ceremony.

 

Scouting, January, 2006 and May, 2006 [emphasis added]

 

In contrast, in 1995. Scouting said:

 

First of all, the BSA does not define uniforms by the terms Class A or Class B, which are from the military.  The official (or field) Scout uniform is worn to formal Scouting activities and public events such as courts of honor, recognition dinners, and parades.  The activity uniform, for use when a high level of physical activity is involved, consists of official pants (long or short), appropriate official activity shirt (red for all Scouts and Scouters), maroon or tan for Venture crew members , or custom Scout shirt (camp, unit, special event, etc.) and official olive socks.["Field uniform" is military in origin.]

 

Scouting, October, 1995.

 

Interestingly, this language rather clearly portrays the "field uniform" as a "dress," or "Class A," uniform at a time when BSA sold designated "Activity Uniform" garments, clothing the military would call "Class B" or "field."  The designated "activity Shirt" went away years ago.  It's last version was an ugly gray with a back vent.  So too, did any reference to an "Activity Uniform" on BSA's uniform website (sixteen different combinations, but no "Activity Uniform") . But (of course?)  Scouting continues to refer to the vanished "Activity Uniform."

 

 

If you can add facts, please do.  That is what I was hoping for.

 

We will all decide for ourselves what this all means.  No need to get edgy.

 

(Careful using "pants" with UK Scouters.  On that side of the Big Pond, "pants" are worn under "trousers" - at best.)

[Eagle94-A1]

Handbooks

Thus far, I cannot find "field uniform" in a handbook, for boys or Scoutmasters.

 

10th ed. Boy Scout Handbook copyright 1990,  states what a field uniform is and has an image on page 566. Also has a description of the activities uniform.

 

NOTE: Found my copy of the 10th ed. 2nd printing. The photo of the Activities Uniform in the 2nd Printing shows the tan shorts and white socks.  The 1997 printing of the same edition shows Scout with the colored polo shirts, but with the green shorts and socks.

 

1990 ed, first printing Scoutmaster Handbook, uses field and activity uniforms, and has pics on pages 231 to 233. The image of the uniforms also includes the tan activity shorts with white socks that they stopped producing around 1995.

Scouting

 

First of all, the BSA does not define uniforms by the terms Class A or Class B, which are from the military.  The official (or field) Scout uniform is worn to formal Scouting activities and public events such as courts of honor, recognition dinners, and parades.  The activity uniform, for use when a high level of physical activity is involved, consists of official pants (long or short), appropriate official activity shirt (red for all Scouts and Scouters), maroon or tan for Venture crew members , or custom Scout shirt (camp, unit, special event, etc.) and official olive socks.["Field uniform" is military in origin.]

 

FYI, Another case of BSA discrepancies. The Maroon polo shirt has "VENTURE" on it and was for a troop's Venture crew members.

 

The Tan polo has "VARSITY" on it, and was to be worn by Varsity team members.

 

The info I t ype is also on page 566 of the 10th ed. Boy Scout Handbook.

 

If you can add facts, please do.  That is what I was hoping for.

 

 

 

Another BSA Scource

 

Scoutmaster and Assistant Scoutmaster Specific Training Syllabus copyright 2005 and 2010 Printing found here http://www.scouting.org/filestore/training/pdf/34879.pdf on page 150 states : "The parts of a field uniform are these:"  then goes on to decsribe the tan and green uniform.  Same page also states "The parts of the activity uniform are these:" and goes on to describe a t-shirt or other activity shirt, and green shorts, socks, and Scout belt.

 

 

 

Current Scoutmaster Position Specific Syllabus, found here  http://www.scouting.org/filestore/training/pdf/511-213_WB.pdfon page 5 states:

 

Faculty Uniforms

The course faculty members should set a good example as trainers and representatives of the local council. Accordingly, they are expected to wear the complete and correct Scouting field uniform appropriate to their Scouting positions during the course. (emphasis added)

 

Hope this helps.

Edited October 4, 2015 by Eagle94-A1

[Eagle94-A1]

Ok here is the link to the first SM Specifc Syllabus. http://www.scouting.org/filestore/training/pdf/34879.pdf

[TAHAWK]

Thank you so much,

 

Turns out I can't find my copy.  0___0

 

Your info led me to this:

 

"The artwork and photos in this Handbook are interesting also because the full Scout uniform ("field uniform") is rarely seen. Instead, the BSA tried to promote its new (and expensive) "activities uniform" option by showing it in almost every photo and drawing. This optional uniform didn't replace the standard uniform, it was in addition to it. It required not only a separate polo-style shirt, but also different shorts from the standard Scout shorts. Most troops continued to do what troops have done for decades—they designed their own troop T-shirt (or used one of the standard ones in the Scout catalog), which could be worn with the regular Scout shorts."

 

 

Fits nicely with the reference to "field uniform" in found in Scouting from 1995 (noted above) that was contradicted in 2006.

 

So the typical "Class B" competed with the "Activity Uniform" while the latter was around.

[Eagle94-A1]

Exactly.

 

I got the red and maroon polo shirts while I worked for supply.  I would wear the 1997 activity uniform to school, then show up at work and put on the tan field uniform shirt

 

The tan shorts were actually a gift from one of my Eagles. he worked at a local army surplus store that was a BSA distributor. He got the shorts for me as a thank gift so that Icould "complete your [uniform] collection."

[desertrat77]

Enjoying the discussion, learning several things that I missed during my long hiatus from scouting years ago.

 

As for the terms "class A" and "class B,"  I'm reminded of a concept an English teacher shared years ago concerning definitions:   "usage determines meaning."  

 

We have the formal "dictionary" or "regulation" meaning for a word (or in this case, a phrase).   And then we have the meaning used by the masses.   Usually the latter carries the day.

 

In my travels, I've noted that many more troops than not use the class A/B system, and it works quite well for them.   If parents and scouts understand clearly what class A/B mean, and people show up in the right place, at the right time, in the right clothing, more power to them.

 

I'd rather not get National involved in something so practical.   Despite their best intentions, things could get quite convoluted. 

Edited October 5, 2015 by desertrat77

[CalicoPenn]

So let's review:

 

The term Field Uniform is not used much in current BSA literature - only a single reference in the uniform guidebook in reference to OA sashes and in the OA handbook, so field uniform seems to be an official usage limited to the OA.

 

Official Uniform = Field Uniform = "Class A" = "Dress Uniform"

Activity Uniform (apparently no longer used) = "Class B"

[Stosh]

Of course one can always go with:

 

Class A = Dress uniform = blue blazer

Class B = Field uniform = standard scout uniform

Class C = whatever you want to wear aka civilian clothes.  

 

Works for me.